Widen Stock CBX Comstars Via Kosman Weldup Process

[Mike Barone #123]

HISTORY



i sent the 1100f rear rim off my x to kosman maybe 5 years ago. basically they cut the flanges off and reweld wider flanges on using all the latest and greatest welding equip. job was amazing

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so...........i wrote them an email as follows "can kosman use the weldup process on honda comstar rims"



mike





************KOSMAN REPLY************



Yes.



Dave: Parts Manager 707-837-0127

Kosman Specialties

http://www.kosman.net/



daves email: bikeparts@aol.com







************FOR MORE INFO and PHOTO************





http://www.kosman.net/ then click catalog...then scroll down to "Special Products and Services...>>>>Weldup Rims"



We 'invented' the weld-up wheel; and, in order to make a great product even better, we have completely upgraded the tooling to widen wheels. By utilizing new machining and welding fixtures, we can offer a better product and better turnaround time.



<snip> Wheels can be widened by .75" minimum to 1.5-2.0" maximum, for additional cost we can often go as wide as 10-10.5" depending on wheel. We can also change the diameter.



WHL-WUP $425.00

Add $70.00 for diameter increase

Add $75.00 for asymmetrical offset

Add $100.00 for additional width beyond 2", subject to feasibility

Please call us so we can provide a Weld-up information form before sending your wheel.





******** MAX TIRE WIDTH WITH STOCK SWING ARMS *******



semi-guess here after kosman widens stock cbx comstar rear rim to say 4.5 to 5.5....the limiting factor for a wider tire then will then be the stock swing arm width.............so i am thinking 140 to 150 is max with stock x arm.



anyone else have a view on this





mike

[EMS]

Yeah! What will the wider tire do? Wider rear tires make bikes harder to turn. On my racebikes, we go from a stock 190 to a 180 on extremely tight tracks. Is it just a matter of looks?

[sr71cbx]

---My turbo '79 does quite nicely on mountain roads with a 170/60VB-18 in the back with 2" over swingarm---buzzes the nubs off the sides just fine..... :twisted: .....yes,you do have to drive it more into the corners but it will stick very well even though it is set up more for straight-line stability.

[Mike Barone #123]

hi mike (ems)/mark/all

my view is somewhat/weee bit wider rims/tires on a cbx can improve looks but does not make alot of diff in handling....say going from 120 to 130 on the rear or going to a 3.0 rear rim from stock.

going from 120 to 160/170 on the rear using a 4.5/5.5 inch kosman widened rim and say a 110 on the front (all of which i did with the 1100f front and back conversion) makes a world of difference. night and day.

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as far as your (mike/ems) point related to wider tires on any bike being harder to tun in...this is true .....but thats not the issue with the cbx.....the cbx had tires too narrow for its weight and performance.

these narrow tires have a very rapid tread angle/arc drop off and a narrow contact patch avail when leaned and in my view this creates a very unpredictable turn in at speed in the twisties on the heavy cbx..... vs the more gradual angle/arc drop off of wider tires which yields a more controlled turn in and much, much better recovery back the other way for the next turn

that new bikes weighing a couple of hundred pounds less yet having same/more horsepower come with 120s on front and 160/170ss on back proves the cbx tires are too narrow and gives us a clue on what part of the answer to making the early model cbx handle might be

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there is really no need for high theory on this ....there are guys/gals in europe and the usa that have been working on making the early models handle for 24 years now and in every case the best handling cbxs they have created have wider tires and associated changes.

i have a bike so equipped (again....econo changes via 1100f front and back with kosman widened rear rim to 4.5) .............and it works (see page 31 of last xpress for track day results)

so nomatter what ...my experience is when mounting wider tires with appropriate arm and going to 39mm front tubes on the early model increases handling performance by 2x min and as such knowing bout the kosman weldup option avail for comstars is good to know for cbxers.........at least i think it is


mike

[CRAZY DAVE]

Wider tires are really neat, but I don't do any crazy cornering with mine- ( old age,chicken,bad reflexes,fear of scuffing my baby,etc ) I like the stock width for two reasons. 1.- CHEAP and on the bike already. 2- Skinny tires are really neat when you leave a light next to a Harley just after he bad mouths your bike and takes off. Pass him at 60 when you shift to 2nd and KEEP the back tire lit like John Force !! Sort of makes them look slow and it really impresses the younger guys on their crotch rockets-until they realize their front tire is 2 inches wider than your rear tire. Just tell them that it is a factory safety design - too much motor and not enuff clutch. Put donut spares on the back of John Force's car and see if he will burn the clutch or do a blow-over !!

[E Lee]

If it's looks you are after I'd be the first to say go for it. Fat tires on an X look pretty cool.

If it's cornering traction, I'd say after doing a track day on the X a few weeks ago, there is a lot more traction on stock sizes than nerve or engine guards allow. The X ain't "flickable", get yourself a modern bike that's 300 lbs lighter. If it's a feeling secure thing, knowing there is some extra traction under you, remember nothing works on those street hazards that cause tires to SLIP!

Later,

Ed Lee

[Mike Barone #123]

thanks ed/all for your comments



in the end its what we do with our bikes and what we like about our x is a personal thing......so if yours might be handling on your early model there are lots of things in this thread to consider



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my summary point is you ever want to go faster than normal in the twisties then the early model cbx can be changed to do this better...and part of these changes are wider tires/rims and a 39mm front.



its not that the stock tires have limited traction at speed in turns as much as the quality of the traction and turnin/backup and control is not nearly as good as with wider tires and rims.



you get a cheap flight east for one of the rallies here next year...we pick you up at the airport, have an x for you to ride with these mods and point you to the roads/twistie to give it a try ....and i think you will see the diff





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one more tip for those looking to increase "flickability on the x" is add about 3/4 of an inch to the end of your cbx sport or vfr clipons via welding ....and this gives more leverage and sorta makes the x feel like it has power steering. its a top three mod for handling in the tight twisties



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as far as keeping up with new bikes in the tight twisties it takes two things....



1. having an x that you can twist the throttle and have it handle, go an do what you want, when you want it



2. alot of rider seat time on your x to know how and when to twist the throttle .......as in years not months.



my experience is that 50%+ of the riders on the latest and greatest bikes have item 1 but not alot of item 2....



sooooo....if you have an x and both item 1 and 2 you will never come home last on your x in the twisties like we have in the mountains here in east



finally....anyone could reach out and touch cbxs and cbx riders at marlinton that actually have come home first on sport rides with cbxs and new bikes.......and actually there are quite a few of them



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thanks for your all your posts





mike

[EMS]

Sorry, but I am still with those of you who think it is all about show.

I agree the CBX can use some improvement, but as a STREETBIKE ON PUBLIC ROADS it has more potential than any of us over-40-guys will ever be able to handle. I did in 1979 and it still does today. I do not object to a slightly wider tire in the rear, mostly because the original stock size is no longer made by anybody or because you have performed a swingarm conversion. But having wheels custom made to put rubber on that otherwise wouldn't fit in order to improve handling?? Come on! I have an active road racing career behind me and am still involved as a (small) team owner. Bike handling is sure a topic dear to my heart and I have some experience about what works and what doesn't in the real world. Only place real fat tires are good for is the drag strip.(Or the local boulevard) And what is this "welding on the handlebar to increase the leverage" thing?? First, the wider rear tire does not make it so hard to turn(?) but you should make your handlebars wider to achieve less recognizable improvement? Why is everybody gaga about the Sport Kits?? You have more leverage with the stock bars. I would be willing to bring one of the kids who races my bikes to the next rally. You give him a bone stock CBX and you can ride one of your modified ones. Watch him get away from you. Quickly.

[Mike Barone #123]

mike/ems



your view is you dont want to modify your x to handle better...fine



my view is i want my x to handle the best it can with econo handling changes that still allow it to maintain the cbx look...fine



others want to change their cbx to be the ultimate handling/performance tool...still fine



this is the place to post these..... so we can all read from all our past cbx experiences and learn from them.



i have said all i want on this topic and i really dont want it to get a life of its own with you or anyone else.....and/or get personal which is where it seems to be headed



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related to a young road racer taking a stock cbx getting away from me and my dawgie on a race track..... geeeeezzzzzzzz mike/ems.....what would that prove and talk about stacked odds.....your guy is 20 years old, weighs 135 pounds and has 20/20 vision in each eye ....vs ....me at 60 years old, 265 pounds and with vision in only one eye.



more fair would be you as a former road racer 40 years old plus a bit .....adding 125 pounds to your stock cbx to make our weights be the same, you cover your right eye so we both can see the same ...and you run the stock tour cbx clips and stock tire sizes that you like. if this by some miracle turned out favorable to me would you consider admitting a few things i know that work .....might infact work



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the real deal here on the icoa line..... is that we all be able to have our say, but each of us have some latitude, understanding and appreciation for what others have to say which is exactly what has been happening here for the last three plus months. lets continue this



fair nuff........thanks for your comments now





mike

[cb1100f]

i have a bike so equipped (again....econo changes via 1100f front and back.............

Mike you got both ends sorted out, take the plunge and fill in the middle :)

[Mike Barone #123]

i have a bike so equipped (again....econo changes via 1100f front and back.............

Mike you got both ends sorted out, take the plunge and fill in the middle :)

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hi glenn



since we have not met yet, i can tell you everyone that knows me will tell you i have done a great job at over filling my personal middle up ....way toooo fat



now related to filling the 1100f front and back up on my x with the rest of the 1100f in the middle..... i will tell you what you already know ....the 1100f is great motorcycle and i would love to own one.



way back when the x and 1100f were somewhat new a bud had an 1100f and we used to swap rides alot. i never thought i was a wussss, but the 1100f scared the crap out of me....this bike was fast...alot faster than the x. glenn how do the quarter mile times compare and what are your impressions of each bike



how much do they go for now ....and what is availability





mike