OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND


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itsacbx
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OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by itsacbx »

damn,
Assembled my 79 last week, but no go, ever...
Lots of spark and adequate gas, but still no go. I checked the position of the CDI trigger and its 180 degrees away from #1 sensor that sends the signal to the OKI.
So acting on advise from Jeff Bennetts I pulled the engine, flipped it over and pull the lower case off. Plan was to see what was wrong, fix it and put it all back together , happy days.....

NEXT STEP: 1] I confirmed #1 and #6 cylinders are on the compression stroke. I put a compression gauge on the sparken plug hole, plus pulled the cam cover to confirm .
2]. The T mark is facing to the front of the engine on the case break
3] The dot on the primary shaft is right at the cast mark on the case near the primary chain.
4] the slot in the primary shaft faces up [towards the case break] and is 90 degrees to the case break
Put it all back together and the trigger is still 180 degrees from the sensor for #1 cylinder.

What am I doing wrong??????
Help and advice please.
Al
IMG_8069 cbx timing dwg.JPG
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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by itsacbx »

dwg FYI

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by itsacbx »

OK, spoke to Tony Herd in Oz and he has suggested we may have talked ourselves into a problem that doesnt exist, with one caveat.....
My workshop manual is poor quality, so can someone tell me if the pickup at 7 o'clock in my drawing is the 1- 6 cylinder pickup please???
IF it is then we have been chasing a non-existent problem, as when the crank is turned to F, then the trigger will be at the pickup for the '7 o'clock/1-6 pickup' unit.
Thanks
Al

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by shiskowd »

itsacbx, I believe you are all good as far as the mechanical side of the ignition timing.

The image below is from the '81-'82 Pro-Link manual which shows in more detail where the advancer is positioned on the pulse coils when the crankshaft is at the 'F' timing mark. If the rotor tooth on the advancer is aligned with the 1-6 pulser as shown, all is good in terms of your mechanical ignition timing including primary shaft alignment. The 'F' timing mark is 10 degrees advanced of the 'T' top dead center mark that you use to align the camshaft timing gears and the primary shaft per the manual.
Timing Capture 2.JPG
If it still won't light I would:

1) Check to ensure your camshafts are aligned per the manual with the crankshaft on the 'T' mark, intake and exhaust camshaft lobes facing the sparkplug hole in cylinder #6 and facing away from away from each other in cylinder #1. Compression test can reveal if something is amiss without removing the valve cover.

2) Ensure the ignition wiring from the pulse generator to the spark units to the coils haven't been crossed up so that the pulse generator is firing the correct coil. If you have a timing light, remove the right crankshaft cap (leave the top screw in place to thwart the flow of oil) and spin the engine on the starter. The timing light should trigger when the 'F' crank mark is on the forward facing case split. You'll loose a bit of oil from the outer most crank bearing as the engine spins but won't be significant. If the timing light flashes and the 'F' mark is at a different position (likely 120 degrees before or after) the wiring has been crossed up somehow.

3) Lastly, what do are you reading for the compression test? As Kevin Cameron writes, if it has fuel, compression and timing, it has to light!

I should be in Edmonton in the next weeks if you need a hand further. Send me a PM.
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2022 KTM 890R, 1982 Pro-Link, 1979 CBX 'Z, 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T
Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by jnnngs »

Hi,

Has the advance retard mechanism (behind the pickups) been taken apart? Looks to me like the cam has been put back on 180 degrees out.

Paul.

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by daves79x »

That's what it looks like to me too Paul.

Dave

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by itsacbx »

ha! Id never thought of that.....
The bike was acquired relatively complete but it wasnt running when I got it....
thats why I appealed to the CBX gods for help. I knew someone would have the answer.
Im back looking at it this morning so will explore that possibility also.
Bottom line is I know the primary shaft is correct in relation to the crank and cams, the error is somewhere else and the misplace cam may be the answer....
stay tuned
Thanks again
Al

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by itsacbx »

oh well what can I say after a few days of stress and trauma.......
I reassembled the engine lower end and when installing the ignition cam the trigger point remained 180 degrees from where it should have been located, so after a 180 degree adjustment, it lines up perfectly. I had checked that #1 and 6 were on the compression stroke and the F mark was on the case break facing to the front.
All assembled and in the bike - tomorrow ill connect all the bits and see if I really have fixed the problem......
Stay tuned!
Al

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by NobleHops »

Cool! Could be ready!
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by itsacbx »

well as is usual the problem was simple to fix and not what it seemed......
Because I was fitting later OKI's to the bike I had to build a bridge harness, however I never quite satisfied myself that I had made it correctly, so having previously purchased a harness from Pazon in NZ for my NZ based 79, I spent the $ and bought another harness.
Much, much later and after stripping the carbs 2x and pulling the bottom off the engine to check I had timed it correctly on the primary shaft, AND finding that the ignition cam was on the shaft backwards, I asked my son to check the integrity of the Pazon bridge harness. At that stage what the hell else could it be?????
And the rest of the story is that the harness was wired backwards. My son traced all wires from the ignition trigger through the harness to the OKI's and back to the coils.The decision was made to make the changes at the 4 pin connector and it was as simple reversing all the wires so they were in the correct orientation in relation to the security clip.

So, many days later the bike now runs. A minor carb leak seems so simple to fix compared to what Ive just been through. And I think I need a break from CBX's for a while and will go ride my 1969 Kawasaki A7SS for a while [well once the snow goes of course some time between now and July]
Thanks everyone for the guidance, support and input.
Al
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Re: OH HELP ME OH WISE ONES BEFORE I GO OUT OF MY MIND

Post by NobleHops »

Al, I salute you for your patience and persistence, and also for the humility to share your experiences. Speaking for myself, I stumbled and thrashed my way through some of my early forays into the care and feeding of my CBX, and it never would have turned a wheel without a lot of support from the crew here, none more than Dave McMunn. Take your pause, enjoy the spring weather and then we’ll get that bike over the finish line. They truly are a joy to ride when they are in good tune, it will be worth the effort.

Cheers!

N.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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