Alternator Plates


Larry Zimmer
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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by Larry Zimmer »

With respect to what you said, Rick, interesting that 'no one' includes an ammeter these days. In anything. (Don't know about big trucks.) Back in my early days, cars came equipped with an ammeter. No volt meter. You knew what was going to the battery. And, if it didn't taper off gradually, you knew something wasn't right. (Dead or failing battery, short somewhere, voltage regulator malfunction, etc.) Volt meter doesn't 'say' nearly as much. Progress!? Now, if I could find a 2 1/8" ammeter...….
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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Dropped the ball, indeed. As have everyone else. Ammeter much more useful than volt meter. Likewise for all cars and trucks. In the 'old' days, cars came with ammeters; not volt meters. Wish they still did. Incidentally, anyone know of an ammeter to fit a Honda fairing? It's either 2 1/8" or 2 1/4" -- don't remember. Everything seems to be 2".
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NobleHops
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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by NobleHops »

Motoroyce,

We (RestoCycle) have made a fairly deep dive into the workings of the CBX charging system, and as a result have achieved some really good performance on our rebuilt alternators. Part of that service is very well known by now - the as-designed spring preload must be restored with the use of shims or the alternator drive clutch plates will spin excessively, reducing output and compounding the problem as the wear, heat and friction erodes the material of the clutch plates and work-hardens them too.
A_Plates.jpg
The "A" drive plate (with the grooves) was manufactured with a slight but measurable concave shape to it as well. Opinions vary as to why this is the case - some think it was a manufacturing error, and others think that is was intentional, to allow the plates to wear into each other as they bed in. I measured this shape on a NOS part and found .002 difference between the inner and outer surfaces, which is a pretty big variance. Whatever Honda's (Hitachi's?) intent with the drive plate, we have restored better-than-new performance to the alternator with a full service, plus the use of reGROUND drive plates made perfectly flat, plus shims to restore proper preload to the spring.

This is a NOS A plate with a straight edge against it, and a .002" feeler gauge beneath the center section.
Alt_002.jpg
Guys have done variations of this same service for years by simply lapping the plates on a sheet of glass on emery paper, (including me) but I'm here to tell you it is a slow process if they are very worn, and you'll have sore shoulders for days afterwards. If you do elect to DIY like that, this is some critical experience we have gained: When you lap, machine, or better yet grind these surfaces flat, you will be sharpening the edge of those oil flinger grooves enough to make them sharp enough to cut you. And if you put them into service like that, the edge will start to break against the B plate and the material that is broken off will get trapped between the two plates and begin to lay new grooves into the surface you so painstakingly restored. Those edges must be well chamfered before these are put back into service to prevent this occurring.

We offer complete alternator rebuilding service, including refinishing the housings as desired (paint, polish, vapor blast, or powdercoat), which includes at a minimum new reground drive clutches, all needed shims, the two bearings, brushes, the seal, gasket, square 0-ring. If needed we also provide a replacement spring, grommet, resurfaced or replacement rotor, and even a new stator if needed. The cost of this service can obviously vary quite a lot depending on what all is needed, starting at $495. Our rebuilt alternators are shown to output 13.2V at idle on a warm motorcycle, and 14.3 - 14.6v at 2,500 RPM and up, assuming the rest of your wiring is in good condition.
Alt_Parts.jpg
The complete process is thoroughly detailed here if you elect to DIY. It's on my list to duplicate this gallery here so it it more easily accessed by folks.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/RestoCycleL ... 3080048436

Best,

Nils Menten
RestoCycle LLC
Tucson, Arizona, USA
www.restocycle.com
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Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by EMS »

Here is a question for the electric experts:
I have a current draw on one of my bikes which I do not know where it comes from. It just eats batteries when parked for a longer time. The bike does not have a clock, like the BMWs, which run all the time.
How can I measure that there is in fact a current running from the battery when the bike is sitting?
Will any instrument connected to the positive terminal of the battery show a current flow?

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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by Rick Pope »

I have one bike that has, in my view, a stupid feature. It tests the turn signal bulbs continuously, and thus has a small current draw, even with the switch "off".

I would think an in-line digital ammeter might be able to measure draw.
Rick Pope
Either garage is too small or we have too many bikes. Or Momma's car needs to go outside.

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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by daves79x »

A Fluke or similar good quality multimeter with a clamp-on ammeter attachment will measure milliamps of draw. Find how much total draw there is at the battery, then start downstream to see exactly where the draw is. Could be a partially grounded wire.

Dave

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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Rick, that 'feature' gets my 'Darwin' award of some kind. Who in the world..........?? What does the 'system' do if one of the bulbs fails? Wake you in the middle of the night with a scream? Don't whether to laugh or cuss!
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shiskowd
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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by shiskowd »

EMS wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:30 pm
How can I measure that there is in fact a current running from the battery when the bike is sitting?
Will any instrument connected to the positive terminal of the battery show a current flow?
If you don't have a good quality clamp on meter as Dave suggests you can make due with most better quality digital multi-meters. They often can measure up to 10 amps DC current and measure down to fractions of a milliamps or microamps. Result will be the same on the positive or negative battery terminal, best to work with the negative terminal as to not go to ground with the positive lead when messing around.

- Remove the key from the bike to ensure you don't thumb the starter that will instantly blow the meter fuse (it should have one)
- Remove the negative battery lead(s) to the bike. If there are multiple negative leads under the battery terminal, run a small bolt through them with a nut to keep them all together separate from the battery.
- Plug the multi-meter common lead into the higher amperage terminal on the meter (usually 10A). Set the meter to the high amperage scale.
- Place the multi-meter in series between the battery negative terminal and the negative battery lead(s). Easiest if you have alligator clamp style leads for the multi-meter.
- If there is any 'parasitic' load the meter will show it. If nothing is reading on the 10A scale, move the meter range selector to mA or uA setting. For most meters you may need to change the common lead on the meter to a different common plug port for the lower current range.
- If you find a slight current, start disconnecting various connectors that serve +12V to different parts of the bike. When you notice the current drop off you've found the system that's causing the issue.

I had a bike that had a slightly corroded connector feeding the key ignition switch that had just enough connection to ground that it would not blow a fuse but enough to drain the battery over 2 weeks.
2022 KTM 890R, 1982 Pro-Link, 1979 CBX 'Z, 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T
Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

EMS
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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by EMS »

I have a digital, switchable multi-meter with two leads, red and black (pos and neg). So, you are saying if I disconnect the neg cable from the battery, put the red meter lead on the battery terminal and the black lead on the disconnected cable, switch the meter to a low amp range, I should get a reading, if there is a parasitic flow?

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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by shiskowd »

Yes, that should work. Polarity on the meter doesn't matter, it will read a negative current if backwards like I show on the pic below. I would suggest you start with a high amp setting first in case there is a larger load (doubtful but want protect the meter). On my meter below I would need to move the red lead to the 10A lead connection on the meter and select the 10A scale on the dial. To measure mA or uA, you need to move the read lead to the 'normal' connection as shown and select mA or uA on the scale selector.
20200623-DSC04966.jpg
20200623-DSC04967.jpg
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2022 KTM 890R, 1982 Pro-Link, 1979 CBX 'Z, 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T
Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

Larry Zimmer
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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Thanks from all for the write-up. That's good detail and info for folks. What makes this forum 'click'!
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EMS
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Re: Alternator Plates

Post by EMS »

Thanks for the instructions. Test performed, meter does not show any flow. Yet battery loses charge while sitting in the bike. Will take it out and let it sit for a couple of days disconnected and see if it does the same.

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