The International CBX Owners Association

I have recently purchased a 1982 Honda CBX1000. My local Honda service centre advises that the " Guide Clutch ( Outer ) part no 22116MA2000 Needs replacing.
Does anyone know where i can buy a new one of these please...... Alastair

That part is highly sought after for those wanting to install a late-model clutch to an early bike. Sellers part out late models and sell the clutch basket for big $$$, but don't have a clue that you need the shorter bushing and additional washer as well. But yours should have all the correct parts. Does your mechanic say your bushing is bad, or the incorrect one? If he says it's bad, I'd sure clean it up the best you can and use it, 'cause you are going to look long and hard for a replacement.

Dave

daves79x wrote:That part is highly sought after for those wanting to install a late-model clutch to an early bike. Sellers part out late models and sell the clutch basket for big $$$, but don't have a clue that you need the shorter bushing and additional washer as well. But yours should have all the correct parts. Does your mechanic say your bushing is bad, or the incorrect one? If he says it's bad, I'd sure clean it up the best you can and use it, 'cause you are going to look long and hard for a replacement.

Dave

If you have the incorrect early model bushing which is longer it can be milled down to the correct length of the 81/82, you need to remove material from both ends of the bushing so the oil grove stays centered on the bushing, then add the correct washer.

Jeff Bennetts wrote:

daves79x wrote:That part is highly sought after for those wanting to install a late-model clutch to an early bike. Sellers part out late models and sell the clutch basket for big $$$, but don't have a clue that you need the shorter bushing and additional washer as well. But yours should have all the correct parts. Does your mechanic say your bushing is bad, or the incorrect one? If he says it's bad, I'd sure clean it up the best you can and use it, 'cause you are going to look long and hard for a replacement.

Dave

If you have the incorrect early model bushing which is longer it can be milled down to the correct length of the 81/82, you need to remove material from both ends of the bushing so the oil grove stays centered on the bushing, then add the correct washer.

That's a money tip right there. Good one Jeff.

N.

I have never encountered a "worn" outer guide. Wonder what the mechanic bases this on. I also wonder what happens if you use the longer early bushing and leave the second washer out. You end up with the same dimension.

You do end up with the same dimension, but it doesn't work as many have found out. Something about the outer washer needing to be there in the Pro-Link. Don't know why.

Dave

daves79x wrote: . Something about the outer washer needing to be there in the Pro-Link. Dave

If the "outer washer" is the one in front of the clutch guide, against the engine case, this is there at all models. The additional washer in the Prolink is the one inside the clutch. The one between the clutch center and the outer basket.
It is the same dimension and actually the same part-number as the outer washer. As this washer does not come out unless you take the clutch apart, most Prolink assemblies that are being sold, still have this.
The only reason I can think of why it is there is a wear protector between the two aluminum parts. Honda added this in and then had to shorten the guide to keep the stack up dimension.
I really don't think it has any functional purpose. You need it, if you have the shorter guide, but if you use the longer guide, you wouldn't. That's another one of my theories.

But I will support this by using a Prolink clutch with one washer and the longer guide in my 1980, when I put it together.

I'm referring to the washer at the basket, unique to the Pro-Link. All I can tell you is that a late basket with the early bushing does not work properly. The only other part number difference is the clutch outer so must have something to do with that also. BTW, the 2 washers used on the Pro-Link are 30mm and the single early model washer is 30.1mm - different part number.

Dave

daves79x wrote:I'm referring to the washer at the basket, unique to the Pro-Link. All I can tell you is that a late basket with the early bushing does not work properly. The only other part number difference is the clutch outer so must have something to do with that also.

Dave

Yes, Dave. I know there is a "unique" washer in the Prolink clutch. However, it is not really "unique", it is just an additional washer and the same 30mm ID washer that is in both model clutches on the outside of the clutch guide.
The additional Prolink washer sits inside the clutch pack, between the outer basket and the clutch center. And because it is about 1mm thick, the guide needs to be 1mm shorter. If you use an early model guide with both washers, the clutch will not work properly. If you use the shorter guide with one washer, the clutch will not work properly.
The part-number of the clutch outer is different, because it is a completely different design with torsion spring dampers. That's why we use it. But that part has absolutely no bearing on the guide and washer stack-up.

I can tell you to go ahead and try it, but I know personally of several that have and it didn't work. If it works for you - great. Your theory seems correct - Mike - you know that I know perfectly well what the obvious difference is in the early and late baskets. I'm saying that there might also be an not-so-obvious difference.

Dave

daves79x wrote: , but I know personally of several that have and it didn't work. Dave

Without knowing what exactly these people tried, I would not accept that it doesn't work. We know there are 4 different ways to put this together and two of them don't work for sure.
And all I am saying is, if most Prolink clutches you can buy have the internal washer, because the pack is just taken out complete, people just put it in an early bike as is. And if they do this together with the long sleeve and the outside washer, it will not work.