wont start ive run out of ideas.

[wyly]

I checked the static timing and if I understand it correctly it may be the reason the engine doesn't fire even with ether.

I lined up the "F" mark with the case line when #6 was at TDC.
the indicator on the center shaft is pointing directly between V shaped thing(pulse generators?) at 9 o'clock and the one at 6 o'clock. Not at all like what is illustrated in my service manual.

I'd post a picture but uploading pictures is something I haven't mastered, sometimes I get it and other times I dont, today I dont recall how I did it before..

[tevan]

Bingo

[wyly]

It's out of range of a simple adjustment so am I correct in assuming that I'll need to do a considerable amount of disassembly?

[wyly]

Would improper timing have any effect on the carbs getting fuel?
Do the carbs require a vaccum created by the engine to prime/fill the float bowls? Only the #2 carb by the fuel line has any gas.

[daves79x]

The primary shaft timing is off by at least a couple of teeth. It will not time the way it is. Cases have to be split, but top end can stay on. However, check to be sure the advancer is actually seated on its pin on the advancer shaft. If it is, then it has to come apart.

Carbs are another issue. With no vacuum valve, you should have positive fuel flow into all bowls. Something is indeed wrong there. I hope the carb guy used the original float valves and not the Keyster ones. Only about a million warnings here not to use them. And if the carbs weren't split, and the o-rings are the originals, when you get fuel to flow, it is likely to flow everywhere. Dare I ask if they did a bench leak test?

Dave

[wyly]

The primary shaft timing is off by at least a couple of teeth. It will not time the way it is. Cases have to be split, but top end can stay on. However, check to be sure the advancer is actually seated on its pin on the advancer shaft. If it is, then it has to come apart.

Carbs are another issue. With no vacuum valve, you should have positive fuel flow into all bowls. Something is indeed wrong there. I hope the carb guy used the original float valves and not the Keyster ones. Only about a million warnings here not to use them. And if the carbs weren't split, and the o-rings are the originals, when you get fuel to flow, it is likely to flow everywhere. Dare I ask if they did a bench leak test?

Dave

Likely a stupid question but how do i check to see if advancer is seated?

Keysters were installed but I have the originals. I only saw the warnings recently but by then I had already given the kits to the shop amd I no idea recollection what brand they were as I bought them about 7 or 8 years ago.. The originals look good to my untrained eye.

there was a test of some sort I don't know if it was a bench test. There was a gas supply suspended above the carbs for a few days.

[wyly]

Carbs are another issue. With no vacuum valve, you should have positive fuel flow into all bowls. Something is indeed wrong there. I hope the carb guy used the original float valves and not the Keyster ones. Only about a million warnings here not to use them. And if the carbs weren't split, and the o-rings are the originals, when you get fuel to flow, it is likely to flow everywhere. Dare I ask if they did a bench leak test?

Dave

Looking at the keyster package I don't see float valves listed in the contents, maybe they used a different name for the part?

I have listed-
1- gasket, chamber
1-needle valve
1-jet, needle
1-screw, air
1 spring, air
1 jet, main 65
1 jet, main 98
12 "O" ring
2 washer
1 needle jet
2 other

of those parts I can identify 11 o rings were not installed
2 washers weren't used
the two main jets were not used
a 2.5 inch brass needle wasnt used
a shorter brass needle with screw base not used
spring not used
A brass cylinder not used
2 silver colored screws not used, a small solid one the other large that is hollow

New float bowl gaskets installed.

[daves79x]

Needle valve is the float valve.

Remove the pulsar unit. Remove the bolt holding the advancer onto the shaft and slide it off the shaft. You will see a pin on the advancer shaft matching a notch on the advancer. Make sure they engage and seat. This is all in the shop manual.

I'd take the engine to a known CBX mechanic and demand some money back from the drag bike builder - a lot of it. Do not let anyone touch it that has not done a lot of work on CBXs.

Dave

[daves79x]

This really bothers me. A supposed competent mechanic rebuilt a CBX engine and had to know he was giving it back with the timing incorrect. He apparently had no trouble taking the money for the job. Either that's the case or he really had no clue what he was doing. Either way, he owes you money back.

Dave

[wyly]

Needle valve is the float valve.

Remove the pulsar unit. Remove the bolt holding the advancer onto the shaft and slide it off the shaft. You will see a pin on the advancer shaft matching a notch on the advancer. Make sure they engage and seat. This is all in the shop manual.

I'd take the engine to a known CBX mechanic and demand some money back from the drag bike builder - a lot of it. Do not let anyone touch it that has not done a lot of work on CBXs.

Dave

thanks dave, your guidance has been priceless
I Found the pin and corresponding recess in advancer, it was seated. Which is not good for me, cases need to be split.

As for taking my Z to a known CBX mechanic that's problematic. I don't know any. A previous shop of "old school" experts that i took it to twisted and cracked the cylinder block, and charged me $1,700 for their troubles and returned a non functioning engine, and a number of missing parts. They too claimed to have rebuilt and restored entire CBXs.
I enquired at a honda dealer's service desk last week and no one there had ever worked on a CBX.

At the moment I'm quite frustrated and considering ending the project and sell it off for parts. I'm 12k in and have no ride to show for it, I could've bought a used ducatti monster for 6k or a new ducati scrambler for what I've invested.

legally I may be obligated to take it back to the rebuilder to fix his errors, if he refuses I could go to another shop and give him the bill. I think if it comes to that I'll most certianly end up in small claims court trying to recover my cash.

[daves79x]

For that money you could have shipped everything to a known expert, had the work done and shipped back for less, way less, than that. But that's just salt in a wound. It really makes me upset and sad to see something like this. The engine builder should pay to make it right, no matter what the cost.

Just for my recollection, what was wrong with the engine that required this level of work to begin with?

Dave

You could have bought this for 12K also. Guess I'm not charging enough.

[wyly]

For that money you could have shipped everything to a known expert, had the work done and shipped back for less, way less, than that. But that's just salt in a wound. It really makes me upset and sad to see something like this. The engine builder should pay to make it right, no matter what the cost.

Just for my recollection, what was wrong with the engine that required this level of work to begin with?

Dave

You could have bought this for 12K also. Guess I'm not charging enough.

yeah you're not making me feel better Dave.
the problem with sending things to you or any expert in the USA our canadian dollar has dropped 25 cents in the last year, a carb rebuild now cost considerably more. That 12k USA cbx example would cost me 16K.

the engine seized up 35yrs ago. Marriage mortgage and kids used up any cash for repairs until now.

Im leaving on vacation to europe tomorrow I was hoping for a better outcome, now its going to be on my mind for the entire trip.

[Mouse]

DAYUM! Dave
I wish I'd known about this club before I bought the one I have.

[Mouse]

"Im leaving on vacation to europe tomorrow I was hoping for a better outcome, now its going to be on my mind for the entire trip.[/quote]"

Do NOT! let this grind away at you while on vacation Wyly.
Go have a good time. WE DEMAND IT!

[wyly]

"Im leaving on vacation to europe tomorrow I was hoping for a better outcome, now its going to be on my mind for the entire trip."

Do NOT! let this grind away at you while on vacation Wyly.
Go have a good time. WE DEMAND IT!

arrived back two days ago, for the first few days I was still really pissed about the rebuild but then it faded away by the time I arrived in Rome. Excellent vacation until the last three days when I recieved news my brother had died.
Now I'm still jetlagged/grumpy, mourning my brother and still have to deal with the engine rebuilder on monday morning. Its not a good time at the moment.