Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

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NobleHops
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Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by NobleHops »

Hafeta run out for a few hours, but I would appreciate thoughts on this:



Anyone ever see this before? Is this wheel now junk?

N.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

steve murdoch icoa #5322
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Re: Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by steve murdoch icoa #5322 »

Never seen that before either.
I would think a Pro-link front wheel could be had for cheap.

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Re: Front wheel loose!

Post by NobleHops »

OK, back from my fun day, and I took a closer look at the wheel. It's hard to say exactly how it happened, but the 'spokes' of the Comstar wheel are loose at the hub end, and all the bolts will spin freely. This wheel assembly consists of the hub, which is in turn clamped by the Comstar spokes with staked nuts at the hub end, and then they are riveted to the rim flange.

Before anyone gets worried about their own wheels, let me just throw my east coast powdercoater under the bus. Great guy, a proud craftsman, but it's entirely possible he went a bridge too far and disassembled this. I can't think of any other reason these would ever have become loose, and as you can see in the photo, the bolts and nut are all powdered black, and so without removing the powdercoat, I can't see if the nuts are still staked anymore. I suspect they forced them off.

This wheel is now junk, and so in the name of science and curiosity I will eventually blast those nuts and see what I find, but in the mean time, I found an identical wheel for sale on eBay for very short dough in excellent condition, and so that's on its way.

Just for fun, I'll mention that I did notice a seller offering Comstar spoke conversion kits, and after admiring Steve Murdoch's bike so many times, I confess it did cross my mind to save this wheel and investigate the conversion. And I might :-).

N.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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Re: Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by daves79x »

Glad you found a replacement Nils. Is it a Pro-Link one or an '80? The Pro-Link is a 2.5 vs your 2.15 and thus even a better replacement.

Dave

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Re: Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by NobleHops »

It's not Dave - I discovered that in my searches here and briefly considered holding out for a ProLink wheel, but my tire is still mint and the wheel I found was described as unmarked, and shipped free, for $65. Hard to pass it up. It was off a CX500 I believe.

Today I am off ISO 8x75 flange bolts, so I can hopefully ride the bike to the vintage club's gathering this evening.

N.
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Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by NobleHops »

OK, heres a wrap-up on all that, I hope.

I might hafeta pull my powdercoater back OUT from under the bus. There's no way he could have removed those bolts and replaced them without totally munging them I think. The bolt heads are flat and tri-oval, and a little lower profile than plain hex bolt, and flanged. No way to hold those still without a special tool. The nuts on the other side were also tri-oval, and knurled. They got marked up instantly - I had no good way to grab them other than vice grips, so that's what I used. Clamped one on the bolt head, the other in the nut and 1/3 of a turn at a time they came off, easier toward the end.

Nut: Slightly tri-oval

Image

Bolt: Also slightly tri-oval

Image

The bolts themselves could be functionally replicated with another hex-head Honda bolt from their cars - it's an 8 x 75 1.25 pitch flanged bolt, Honda (Auto) part # 95701-08075-00. Add a flanged nut and maybe lockwasher and locktight on the other end and it would pass for original at a glance. Several things I read on Comstars said that Honda pinned these nuts in place with metal stakes/pins driven into the threads between the nut and bolt. I could find no evidence of this, not in the threads of the nut nor on the bolt. But they were tight to remove, kind of like one of those locking bolts with a metal fang. Can't say, if there was a metal fang, it was destroyed when I removed it. but nothing looked torn up either.

I tried the local industrial suppliers and Fastenal and Ace as I had hot pants to get this fixed today, but nobody had stock. I found nicely finished zinc hex bolts at Home Depot (of all places), but not with a flange. Bought some equally nicely finished zinc fasteners and nuts and lock washers, dug out my high strength Locktite and had at it. I was concerned about preserving the alighment as best I could so I removed and replaced them one at a time, just snugging the nuts for starters.

Stock bolts, flanged were 75mm, but I had to use two washers. one to act as the flange on the bolt head and another lock washer I elected to use at the nut, so I went with 80mm. IF you had to do this and could wait to get 75mm flanged bolts. you could still use a standard hex nut and a lock washer and they would be just long enough. No big, mine are 5mm longer, and if it bugs me it would not be bad to replace them.

Image

Had to guess at a torque spec, and the manual offered a default torque spec of 13-18 lb/ft, but conveniently enough I was also installing my rotors of course, and they use similarly sized bolts, specified at 20-24 lb/ft. I kind-of split the difference at 20 lb/ft, torqued them like you would a car wheel, in a star pattern, and used high-strength Locktite on them just for fun.

I mounted up the rotors, axle, clamped it all in place on the fork and gave it a spin, and much to my delight, it ran true and not egg-shaped either. Put it back together and took it for a test ride, and all was well with that repair. Will check those nuts again tomorrow and after the next few rides, but I am cautiously optimistic that this is fixed.

N.
Nils Menten
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Re: Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by EMS »

The powder coater may not have touched these, but they still may have come loose during the powder coating process. My powder coater is rather careful with everything that is threaded together during the baking. :think:

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Re: Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by CopperCollar »

I agree with Mike. Not your powdercoaters fault.
I found the same thing on one of my CBX's and the wheel was never touched. It was a front wheel. Made a lot of racket and I thought it was brake calipers, only made the racket when braking. Finally traced it to loose spoke bolts.

I replaced the bolts and checked the wheel for run out. All is fine. I do not ride the bike hard or much so I am okay with my fix. Others may not choose to do this, just ones comfort level I guess.

This is probably more common than we know and if not it will be as these bikes age with riding.

Glad you found a nice wheel.

Mike
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Re: Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Just some general comments regarding the Comstar bolts. The primary purpose of the triangular deformation is to provide and interference fit thread to prevent the nut from backing off if it should loosen. Secondarily, it is intended to serve as a locking feature to prevent loosening. (Might not always do that!) The outside with its triangular shape is intended to prevent dis-assembly. (Or, provide notice that it was disassembled!)

Given the structural significance (sound like a lawyer!) of the wheel, anyone doing work with these bolts might want to consider, ultimately, finding some good prevailing torque nuts to use as a final action with some grade 8 (10.9 grade metric, I believe) bolts. Good place to start, on the web, would be a company called Fastenal. http://www.fastenal.com/web/home They just about 'cover the globe' with product and information regarding bolts and nuts. And, they do have stores in some larger metro areas.
Larry Zimmer
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Re: Front Comstar wheel loose! And repaired.

Post by NobleHops »

Great stuff Larry. The term "prevailing torque nuts" was Googlebait for me, and led me to this:

http://www.aspenfasteners.com/v/vspfile ... _specs.pdf

...and now I know a lot more about locking fasteners than I did a moment ago. For certain, the Honda bolt I linked to, plus one style of these nuts would be ideal for this repair.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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