Machining metal in the house

[Syscrush]

Hey all.

My wife and I just bought a house, we move in this Sep. And for the first time since I moved out of my parents' place 20 years ago, I'll have a basement. There's no garage, and some impediments to building one, so I'm daydreaming about setting up a bit of a hobby shop in that basement.

Getting bikes in and out is out of the question, but doing some smaller projects, including fabricating or customizing parts is something I'd really like to do.

This Bolton 16x20 mill, lathe, drill combo has me excited:



What's throwing cold water on the idea, though, is a friend who pointed out that some pretty nasty smells can come from machining metal - especially when you start using cutting fluid on hot parts/tools.

My first thought in response to that is that with a good fume hood, it should be possible to keep the smells from polluting the rest of the house, but he was pretty adamant that those odors are not just nasty, but very persistent. His exact words were "Cutting fluid is forever, dude."

So, is he being overly paranoid? Is he underestimating what a good fume hood can do? Other than noise, vibration, and smells, are there other concerns?

Are there ways to make this work, or is it just stupid to set up this kind of equipment and use it in the house?

[Larry Zimmer]

While I don't have specific product names to give you, Phil, I'm certain there are those, these days, that don't need to smell forever. The old days used things such as sulfur additives which did linger like rotten eggs. Just keep it contained to the machine and clean after working. Smells better than fabric softener!!

[Kool_Biker]

Phil, first things first. Getting a lathe/mill will for ever multiply your ability to deal with the every day issues we have with our bikes (and not only). It is so empowering.
And it gets better and better with experience. Nowadays every time I need a 'special tool' I simply fabricate while laughing all the way to the bank. The silly prices some manufacturers charge for these ..

As for the smells, I am no expert and do liberally use quality way and lubricating / cutting oils. They do smell, but in my experience nothing like your friend seems to suggest and warn about. In fact I tend to agree with Larry.

Two final thoughts:

1. Buy the absolute best quality machine you can afford. These are precision equipment and quality does play a role every single day. I am not familiar with the equipment on the pic above, but I am sure you will do your research.
As for me, about a year and a half ago I bought a 2nd hand Austrian early 80's 'EMCO' lathe/mill, and never looked back. It looks tired (what I would all call 'patina' - damn it is a classic in its own right, just like our bikes) but it is mechanically sound and of excellent quality.

2. Do note that buying this equipment is only a start. Plan to spend quite a bit more money on rotary cutters, indexable tools, rotary tables, more chucks, etc. etc.

IMG_2810 (1).jpg

Apologies if I sound a bit pedantic, you probably know all this .. Only conveying my enthusiasm for what in effect has given a totally new dimension to our shared hobby.

[daves79x]

And these mills run on 120/240 volt single phase house service? Just wondering.

Dave

[Syscrush]

And these mills run on 120/240 volt single phase house service? Just wondering.

That's a very good question. I hadn't considered it but I did just look it up:

Motor power : 0.55KW/3/4HP.
Voltage/Frequency: 110V/220V ,1phase,prewired 110V,60Hz.

[Syscrush]

And thanks very much for the other replies, as well.

What got me thinking about this is a combination of a few factors:

1. I've had machine envy for years as I've marvelled at build threads on various forums.

2. I've done a very little bit of machining in the past (took 2 courses in high school), and I enjoyed it a lot.

3. As noted, I'm about to have a basement for the first time in my adult life (although I did live for a few years in a loft where I had a shop set up on one side).

4. Looking at all of the pending machine work that has to be done for my CBX, the anticipated final bill would just about cover the base cost of this setup. Of course, as Aris points out, the base cost is just the beginning. And also, it's not like I can just buy the tools and make all of the parts I need right away - gotta figure that it would be a very long process of trial & error and continuing refinement.

[EMS]

I have a basement that is accessible from the outside, and much to my wife's chagrin (who would love to have it nicely finished) I have turned it into a "Project Center" for motorcycle related activites - besides the corner that houses my wine inventory
I consider two problems:
1. The distribution of smells and fumes throughout the house. This very much depends on what kind of HVAC system you have. Here in the U.S. midwest most of it is "forced air" and every little f...t you let go, you can smell in the whole house for a
couple of hours. I have not found a good remedy for this. Even after cleaning carbs, I can smell Chemtron in the second floor bedrooms
2. The ventilation of the basement. You need a good system with a decent fan or other "evacuation" implement. An open door will not suffice. There are mobile units available that some shops or garages use to suck and blow exhaust fumes outside.
That stuff works well.

In any case, if you are doing something smelly, brace yourself for some altercation with the other executive in your household.

[Syscrush]

To be clear, I'm as concerned about bad smells in the living space as my wife is.

There are no exterior doors in the basement. I was thinking of taking over one of the windows and using a furnace blower to extract smells. It would be ducted from a hood that covers the machining equipment, like a big range hood for cooking. We're in a semi on a corner lot, and there is no neighbor on the side where I want the exhaust to go out, nor is it close to the back yard. There's basically just a walkway to the rear, furnace exhaust, and A/C unit at that part of the exterior, so it shouldn't be blowing stink into anyplace problematic.

[NobleHops]

I took a 60-hour "intro to machining" class a few years back and it was a great introduction to it, but in fact there is a ton of other stuff that is going to be needed to make a capable shop, even in addition to the tooling you'll need just for the mill/lathe. Saws and sanders and grinders and stuff to do heat treating and All That Jazz.

There are a few places near me that are sometimes called "hacker spaces" and they not only have the whole nine WRT the tools, they have classes and experienced people around to help when you need it. You are lucky enough to live near several in Toronto.

http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Toronto

I'd give some serious consideration to starting there for a year, even if you DO decide to pull the trigger on the setup for your home.

[Syscrush]

Thanks very much for that link, Nils - I appreciate it. Another option I'm looking at is doing a continuing education class at a local college. That way I could even get my mitts on some sessy CNC stuff - although I do like the idea of sticking with the manual stuff for at home.

Your point about other tools is well made. I have a solid array of mechanic's and carpentry tools currently so I'm not starting from scratch, but no doubt taking on more fab projects would drive additional tool purchases.

[80 cbx dude #6216]

Phil, Think of you're machine shop, tooling and such as another hobby you are about to start, much like getting the CBX. You will start out slow and with more experience you will need more things, as others have pointed out. Uncle Ron is always going to machine shows or auctions to get equipment, used, new, trades, whatever. I'm envious that you're able to do this! Best of luck and I'm sure it will open all kinds of doors for you!-Mike

[FalldownPhil]

The old, sulphur based cutting oils will stink it up pretty good. There are many newer water based coolants and cutting oils that do not leave an unpleasant odor.
There is lots of good advice given above, what stands out is this one,

"1. Buy the absolute best quality machine you can afford. These are precision equipment and quality does play a role every single day. I am not familiar with the equipment on the pic above, but I am sure you will do your research."

Best wishes for your new hobby, it is as addictive as a CBX.
Very Best,
Phil

[Syscrush]

I'm envious that you're able to do this! Best of luck and I'm sure it will open all kinds of doors for you!-Mike

Whether or not I'm able to do it is still TBD. It's something I've wanted to do for a long time, but there are a lot of factors at play here.

[Syscrush]

A local college (really local, downtown campus and everything) has a continuing ed program for machining - 3 courses on milling, lathe, drilling, surface grinding, and precision measurement, plus 2 courses on CNC programming (with the manual machining courses a pre-req), and 2 on general CAM stuff. Rather than rushing into buying machines & scrap metal and screwing around, I think I'll pay the pros for the stuff I need in the short term, and get proper instruction as well as a chance to get a better feel for my fabrication aptitude by doing the courses first.

[twowings]

Who is the vendor of the combo machining center and what kind of cost are they? I work in heavy fabrication with CNC's and full machine shop capabilities but I have no exposure to these "hobby" machines at all. That unit does look interesting for my home shop.