For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

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EMS
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by EMS »

cbxian wrote:

I have never seen a Japan-made CBX-A with matt side-covers. I cannot believe that Honda would come out with the new upgraded CBX-A and use one Spec of side-cover paint in USA, and a different Spec (the old 1978/79 Spec) in Japan ... under 5,000 units, they would have made all these side-covers together at one location.

Production of CBX-Z engines had started at the Honda Waco Factory in late-March 1978 ...
As I said before (though I'm not sure why this is so important), many of the Lowest Vins I have seen over the years have come from USA, especially California. The Release date in USA had been held up as seen in the Honda Letters to Dealers, and there was Shippers Strike actions in USA delaying the CBX's arrival further. I'm happy to think we received and started to enjoy the CBX-Zs around the World roughly at the same time ... though I was only 14 years old, so may be wrong!!!

Best, IAN
*****************************
According to my records ALL CBX-As built in June and July of 1979 in Japan had the matte black sidecovers. A carry-over from the CBX-Z, even with the same part-number. A-models built in the U.S. had either version, matte or gloss. The gloss covers appeared with the production in the U.S. As the A was manufactured in the United States from Japanese and U.S. parts there is a possibility that the gloss sidecovers were sourced or painted in the U.S.
Most certainly Honda had to build engines in March for building complete bikes in April. And again ( I don't know what I am saying incorrectly, I probably have to highlight it in red and make it bold :think: ) Yes, Honda most probably shipped bikes to ALL major markets at the same time. Maybe they arrived later in the U.S. But the undisputable fact is, that the first 800+ bikes were built for the U.S. market specifically - high handlebars, forward footpegs, headlight always "On", large alternator and carburetors marked VB60..just to name the major differences. Honda documented that very clearly.

Mike

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by Jeff Bennetts »

EMS wrote:
cbxian wrote:

I have never seen a Japan-made CBX-A with matt side-covers. I cannot believe that Honda would come out with the new upgraded CBX-A and use one Spec of side-cover paint in USA, and a different Spec (the old 1978/79 Spec) in Japan ... under 5,000 units, they would have made all these side-covers together at one location.

Production of CBX-Z engines had started at the Honda Waco Factory in late-March 1978 ...
As I said before (though I'm not sure why this is so important), many of the Lowest Vins I have seen over the years have come from USA, especially California. The Release date in USA had been held up as seen in the Honda Letters to Dealers, and there was Shippers Strike actions in USA delaying the CBX's arrival further. I'm happy to think we received and started to enjoy the CBX-Zs around the World roughly at the same time ... though I was only 14 years old, so may be wrong!!!

Best, IAN
*****************************
According to my records ALL CBX-As built in June and July of 1979 in Japan had the matte black sidecovers. A carry-over from the CBX-Z, even with the same part-number. A-models built in the U.S. had either version, matte or gloss. The gloss covers appeared with the production in the U.S. As the A was manufactured in the United States from Japanese and U.S. parts there is a possibility that the gloss sidecovers were sourced or painted in the U.S.
Most certainly Honda had to build engines in March for building complete bikes in April. And again ( I don't know what I am saying incorrectly, I probably have to highlight it in red and make it bold :think: ) Yes, Honda most probably shipped bikes to ALL major markets at the same time.

Mike
EMS, you don't need to use red or bold font to have a discussion, maybe a little patience with the contributors of the thread and give it enough time to breath before you accuse someone "that they should know better" and turn the thread sideways.

In my opinion a thread should get more people involved, not excluded them because they may have misunderstood you, have a different opinion than you or just don't want to get involved with the experts.

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by cbxian »

Hi Mike,

As far as I am aware, ALL black CBX-As had gloss side-covers as this was the new Design as specified by Honda (one of the new 'upgrades' from CBX-Z), and shown on all their promotional literature (I should have clarified in my last reply that we are only talking about black CBX-As here, of course there were still matt side-covers being produced, but for the red CBX-As). What records are you referring to? I am wracking my brain to think of any black CBX-As that I have seen around the world with originally fitted matt side-covers ... I can't think of any!? I have only ever seen black CBX-Zs with the matt side-cover. The Made in Japan CBX-As are pretty rare Bikes (only 1,800 made) which were then scattered in Markets around the world.

As Honda intentionally Designed the new black CBX-A to have gloss side-covers then I suspect they would not have 'thrown in' a few matt side-covers on some Bikes for convenience ... they are Honda!?

Anyway all this is just 'guess-work' as Honda did not keep detailed records. All we can do is look at the information we have available ... and then add a bit of speculation and conjecture! It is ok to come to different conclusions, it isn't actually that important a detail. All I was trying to do in my original comment was assess if LONGXXXX's black CBX-Z could have been wearing black CBX-A bodywork!

Best, IAN
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by Mouse »

So, I'm going to throw a spanner into the works :D
Maybe Honda ran out of glossy covers and substituted Matt ones on a limited number of bikes, or, it was the other way around.
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by gak1047 »

Is it possible some of the early 80's were assembled using the silver comstar wheels before Honda switched to the black reverse comstar wheels?

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by wyly »

gak1047 wrote:Is it possible some of the early 80's were assembled using the silver comstar wheels before Honda switched to the black reverse comstar wheels?
that's more likely with a small company like Maico where there were cosmetic inconsistencies within a model year, giant manufacturers like Honda generally don't mess up their strict production procedures...

unless an original owner turns up with an unrestored oddball we'll never know...anything is possible but without documentation there is no viable verification it will always be just speculation which okay for idle motorcyclist chatter over a beer but it's only rumor...

I came across and Ebay seller who claimed he was selling a totally unrestored '79, I questioned his claim and he defended it saying that the guy he bought it from said it was untouched, unrestored so it must be true :laughing-rolling: ....I pointed out the glossy side covers (80), the hatch in the tail cowl(80), the missing rubber tank bumpers(first sign of a repaint) and a few other odd details but he stuck with his "all original, unrestored story line"...I met a local guy making a similar claim about an "unrestored" '79, even though my Z was parked only 5 meters away for easy comparison he still wouldn't accept the visual evidence to the contrary...
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by cbxmel »

I always check the pop rivets on the front mudguard first. If over painted the bike has had a re-spray as they came from the factory unpainted.
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by daves79x »

Some of the best painters mask off the rivets though, so be careful with that.

Dave
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by wyly »

rivets, yeah I considered masking mine but I wasn't concerned with 100% accuracy, only the experts on the forum would ever notice...

the black hatching on the tank badge and the roof shape of the letters, the latter 79 I mentioned lacked both ...and it's decal placement was wrong, lower and upper tank stripes intersected...
CBX a work in progress, still improving...GS1150EFE completed and awaiting modifications.....RD350, remnants in boxes scattered throughout the garage

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by r3sc »

Hi All,

Just read this thread with interest and just wanted to add my input.

I have a mint and totally original CBX-A (12k miles) which was made in Japan and has gloss black side panels.

The bike was originally exported to the U.S. And then came over to the UK in 2010. It has the high bars, large alternator, headlight on permanently, air forks, black reverse comstars etc etc.

It's a real nice bike.

Regards

Pete.

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by Ringnalda »

Guys, It's really pretty simple. Black CBX's should have gloss black side covers. That is original. All red and silver CBX's (yes even 1980 models) have satin black side covers; that is original. Now since all of the bodypanels are interchangeable on any CBX, except the early gas tanks with the solid mounts, I am sure that since the customer is always right, some things may have been swapped out, even when new.
I have only heard of black 1979 CBX's being sold in Germany, but only very few. It would stand to reason those would be Japanese bikes, not USA built, as Marysville didn't really get going until 1980.
Personally, I like the red side covers to match the tank, that would be in line and period correct with the resto of the CB range of that time, but again that is a personal preference.
:twocents-02cents:
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by EMS »

Ringnalda wrote:Guys, It's really pretty simple. Cheers, Jan
Well, again, I think it is not.
Whether all black 1980s had gloss black sidecovers is still an open issue as I know of several Japan-built 80s that have matte covers. At least they do now.
The black 1979 CB1s were not specific German models but European Direct Sales specs, thus could have been sold anywhere and there are indeed black 79s outside of Germany.
The German CBX club had the official "BMV-equivalent" data for years in their magazine which showed two different model codes for the 1980 , which one could assume they are for CB1s and SC03s respectively. The number of one variety was always extremely low (single digits) and are probably SC03 models, grey import U.S. made bikes.
Finally, Marysville started building CBXes in September of 1979. I do share the opinion, however, that only Japan built 1980s were offered worldwide. The U.S. built bikes were only offered in the U.S. and Canada thus limiting the varieties coming off the line.

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by daves79x »

Kind of agree with Mike (yes, surprisingly it often happens). I don't know much about the Euro variants of the black '79/'80 discussion, but one other thing that some have concluded is that red Marysville bikes had both versions of side covers. Some had satin and some had gloss. This seems to be born out by the insistence of some original owners that their red Marysville bikes came with gloss sidecovers, and some insist their original red Marysville bikes came with satin. I really don't know, I guess it's up to who you trust to be telling what they remember from 40 years ago to be fact. I've always considered it to be a fun discussion, however sometimes it was not so fun!

Dave

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by wyly »

daves79x wrote: I really don't know, I guess it's up to who you trust to be telling what they remember from 40 years ago to be fact. I've always considered it to be a fun discussion, however sometimes it was not so fun!

Dave
my Neurologist buddy told me the brain is awesome and how it exactly works is still a mystery... memories are often not what we recall but what we think we recall or even what we tell it to recall...I was 100% sure I bought my Z in January of 78 but checking my invoice it was actually Feb :? 40 years is a very long time ...it's all good though Dave through these discussions with our failing/mistaken memories and we get a little closer to the real facts...
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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by LONGCLOSE »

So its some time since I contributed to this post, so thought I would take the opportunity to upload the finished product.

I have the original shocks but have left the Mozzochi's on as they give a better ride and look right on the bike. Also had stainless exhausts made and had them finished in brushed satin as it looks more fitting.

Enjoy the pics. also can be viewed on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqJGagSr0MU
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