VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

CBXs, new bikes, old bikes, cars, trucks, general chat, off topic, this is the place to post it.

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby daves79x » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:15 am

My thoughts are these: The bike certainly looks legit in every way - except for the paint. The '80 cowl is a curiosity unto itself, but the other paintwork looks suspicious for a couple of reasons. From the factory, these bikes NEVER had orange-peel in the paint, and this one does. Replacement tanks from Honda (when you could still get them, often did). And the color seems a wee bit dark, even from when they were brand new. And this bike almost certainly did not sit with a cover on it all it's life if it was displayed somewhere. This would have led to significant fading of the red paint. So I don't know how the red tail got on the bike, but for the rest, that's my guess. If it's a re-paint, very close inspection will reveal it. Look at the front fender aluminum rivets. Even with careful masking, there will be a ridge of paint around them, not present in the original. Also look around the fuel filler opening for signs of masking, even possible over spray inside on the tunnel.

All that, to me, is not a disqualifier, but if true, should have been disclosed. Others here will certainly have an opinion as well, and may conclude I'm all wet. I've owned my red '79 since new and have seen and worked on a bunch of original, low-mile bikes. I have also seen a lot of the replacement Honda bodywork from the late '80-early '90s. All that leads me to what I concluded about your bike.

Don't take this as criticism, my point is that there are VERY few original, low-mile, unmolested CBXs out there and I don't like to see them being miss-represented. But as I said, otherwise, I think the bike is totally legit with the miles it shows. BTW, is there any noticeable fade on the gauges?

Again, please take my remarks as just observations, you have a very excellent CBX there, that anyone would be quite proud to own.

Dave
daves79x
ICOA Technical Director
ICOA Technical Director
 
Posts: 3517
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:05 am
Location: Knox, PA

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby Graemesig » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:52 am

Thanks for the comment - I'm not offended :-) I would like to know myself, if there is something to understand about it's history.
Before I bought it, I did have the history kind of verified. A UK member if this forum recognised the number plate as coming from the 6 centre, and asked Bert if he knew the bike. Bert did know the bike and confirmed it as genuine. He said that he bought it in 1998 from a guy who had never used it, and kept it in his living room, and that he sold it to another living room guy. Bert also got it back again in 2017, and again when he commissioned it before it got sold to me. Given Bert's standing in the CBX community, I take this as reasonable verification.
But now I look at the photo, I also see the orange peel. I'm not with the bike today, but will have a closer look tomorrow. In the meantime, here is a picture taken at a different location.
817a2ab8-6166-4560-82f5-acd0d9b9c551.jpg

This is also square on the left side, but in a different place. What do you think? Maybe the orange peel was just a reflection of the flooring or lighting in the dealers location? Or is that my wishful thinking?
The front mudguard has definitely not been sprayed, as I was told to look carefully at the rivet thing before I bought it. Also, the clocks have no sign of fade whatsoever. Living rooms are not like showroom windows, so maybe that's why there is no evidence of UV damage.
I will have a look at the fuel filler carefully tomorrow and report back.
If it has been painted, maybe it's the opposite situation - maybe it was next to a window and faded badly, and the guy decided to repaint it. Doesn't explain the tail cowl thing though.
I would love it if there was a chance to show you the bike in the flesh. I'm a novice CBXer, and it would be great to have an expert cast a critical eye over it. I'm in Warwick, UK - Unfortunately, that's a long way from Knox, PA. I keep the bike at work, and we're close to the M40 motorway, so if there's an experienced CBXer passing some time, the kettle is always waiting.........
Cheers,
Graeme
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Graemesig
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby jnnngs » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:21 pm

Hi,

Graeme and I spoke about the bike before he bought it, and I asked Bert at the SixCenter about it.

It looked "right" to me except for:
- the tail piece
- the front master cylinder reservoir has been changed (it was leaking and Bert replaced it)

My guess is that the crash guards were put on by the "second" owner who put the 1000 miles on it - didn't want to damage their new pride and joy. I have no idea why an A tailpiece, suspect the original was damaged at some point in it's 40 years of sitting around.

Can't tell from the pictures about the paint - but it does look very fresh, so either well looked after or redone at some point. Maybe not (quite) 100% original / untouched, but very close (probably just the tailpiece).

I will ask Bert about the tailpiece, see if he knows anything about it.

Paul.
jnnngs
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:05 pm
Location: Hants/UK

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby daves79x » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:25 pm

Maybe the orange-peel was a funny reflection, but you will know for sure when you look next. The tank has the correct rubber 'moles' and all. Yes, I wish I could see the bike in person also. Maybe someday!!

Dave
daves79x
ICOA Technical Director
ICOA Technical Director
 
Posts: 3517
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:05 am
Location: Knox, PA

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby chrispyduck » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:20 pm

Hi Graemesig

Bike looks great so congratulations ! Has the rear mudgurd been extended? Looks a bit longer to me.

I am also new to CBXs and trying to ascertain history to my bike has been fun. Mine started in UK then got to US then ended up in a German museum. All verified by the previous owner Gerald Davison ex boss of Honda UK and one of the developers of the CBX. My bike was featured in the June Classic Motorcycle Mechanics so a liitle history there if want a good read.

I am not too far away so maybe catch up sometime.

Chris
chrispyduck
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:20 am
Location: Shrewsbury

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby Graemesig » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:47 am

Hi Chris,
You are right - strangely there is an extension piece on the rear mudguard.
The bike is at work - 10 minutes from J12 or 13 of the M40 if you ever fancy a coffee......
Cheers,
Graeme
Graemesig
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby Graemesig » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:59 am

daves79x wrote:My thoughts are these: The bike certainly looks legit in every way - except for the paint. The '80 cowl is a curiosity unto itself, but the other paintwork looks suspicious for a couple of reasons. From the factory, these bikes NEVER had orange-peel in the paint, and this one does. Replacement tanks from Honda (when you could still get them, often did). And the color seems a wee bit dark, even from when they were brand new. And this bike almost certainly did not sit with a cover on it all it's life if it was displayed somewhere. This would have led to significant fading of the red paint. So I don't know how the red tail got on the bike, but for the rest, that's my guess. If it's a re-paint, very close inspection will reveal it. Look at the front fender aluminum rivets. Even with careful masking, there will be a ridge of paint around them, not present in the original. Also look around the fuel filler opening for signs of masking, even possible over spray inside on the tunnel.

Dave

Dave,
See below pictures of the mudguard rivets and the fuel tank filler. What do you think? In the flesh the rivets definitely look to me like they were put on after the paint, implying a factory finish. As for the fuel filler, I'm not sure what to expect from the factory finish - what do you reckon?

Paul,
Did you get a view from Bert on the tail cowl?

Thanks both for the detective work.......
Graeme
Graemesig
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby Graemesig » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:05 am

oooops, forgot to upload the pictures...……

IMG_4443.jpg

IMG_4440.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Graemesig
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby jnnngs » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:09 am

Graemesig wrote:Hi Chris,
You are right - strangely there is an extension piece on the rear mudguard.
The bike is at work - 10 minutes from J12 or 13 of the M40 if you ever fancy a coffee......
Cheers,
Graeme


The "mud flap" fitted to this bike was standard on the European Direct Sales (ED) bikes.


Paul.
jnnngs
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:05 pm
Location: Hants/UK

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby daves79x » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:54 am

Dunno - the red overspray and underlayment around the fuel opening looks a bit suspicious. My factory tank does not look like that - all black there. But that's a tough one to call. Did the orange-peel turn out to be a bad photo, or is there some? Fender looks factory.

Dave
daves79x
ICOA Technical Director
ICOA Technical Director
 
Posts: 3517
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:05 am
Location: Knox, PA

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby Graemesig » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:07 am

It doesn't look orange peely to me. I think that was just the light reflection in the showroom in the dealer in Holland.
Graemesig
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby Graemesig » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:38 pm

The mystery is solved!
Paul Jennings spoke to Bert at the 6 centre, who unraveled the story...……
Dave, you indeed have eagle eyes. It wasn't repainted, but it was converted to red paintwork from silver by the 2nd owner. He bought new red Honda tank, mudguard and the tail cowl from an A model.
Funny lighting or not - As you pointed out, the quality of paintwork on replacement tanks was not as good as the originals.
I feel quite pleased :-) At least I haven't been mislead and sold something I didn't think I was buying.
Graemesig
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: VAT on import from EU of low mileage CBX

Postby daves79x » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:01 am

Glad you were able to get to the bottom of things. It would have been nice if this all would have been disclosed at the beginning. But it's still a legit bike and no one knows which bikes were silver and which bikes were red. Enjoy!

Dave
daves79x
ICOA Technical Director
ICOA Technical Director
 
Posts: 3517
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:05 am
Location: Knox, PA

Previous

Return to Daily Discussion: By, For & About CBXers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron