What do you make of this New CBX article?

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What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby Montana69 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:29 pm

Here is a link to the new 2018 CBX. It looks too ugly for a production bike.

Do you think they will really produce it?

http://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/new-six-cylinder-honda-cbx-design-registered.html
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby Michael Vidovic » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:04 pm

In so many ways.....NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...always walk out of the room smarter than you walked in...
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby wyly » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Montana69 wrote:Here is a link to the new 2018 CBX. It looks too ugly for a production bike.

Do you think they will really produce it?

http://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/new-six-cylinder-honda-cbx-design-registered.html

-why would Honda even bother with registering such detailed drawings if there wasn't a motive, at least a consideration of building it?

-timing, 2018 is the actual 40th anniversary of the CBX , 2019 the official anniversary of the CBX I can't think of a better time for Honda to introduce a retro version

-the recent CB1100 retro was a copy of what exactly? I don't recall any vintage honda of that type/size... unlike the Kawasaki 900RS which is based on the KZ900Z1

we'll probably know one way or the other in a month at INTERMOT or two months at EICMA

Dealers I've spoken with claim they don't know for sure (or aren't saying) but are taking a refundable deposits on speculation of production...I put down a deposit to get on the list, I was 3rd to do so at the dealership I frequent...
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby BiKenG » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:49 am

Michael Vidovic wrote:In so many ways.....NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In even more ways, Yeeeeeessssssssss! So, cheap for you, not so for me. :neutral:

Seriously though, why is it that whenever a manufacturer shows something fantastic, the first to respond are the detractors saying how ugly it is (usually nonsense) and how much they hate it? Fair enough, not everyone will like every bike, but on so many bike forums, why do those naysayers get so angry about it. You don't like it? Don't buy it. Simple.

Me? Well, I love it. Cafe racer styling no longer to my taste or comfort, but that's easily modified. However, what it purports to offer is stunning. A new modern CBX with a slimmer, lighter (and presumably more powerful) water cooled engine in a modern chassis etc. What's not to simply lust for.

I've always loved the CBX since I first saw the pictures while standing in Honda UK's Technical Training Schools where I was working at the time and then went on to do most of the UK introductory training for the CBX. So we have history and although currently working on my own CBX project, I cannot help but be totally smitten by the idea of a new one. The fact that Honda have even been considering it is a total shock since I thought they'd lost that spark of enthusiasm and creativity. I do so hope they actually get to produce this, without too many changes, although my suggestion would be with 2 versions offered. A fully naked bike as well as the cafe racer version with bikini fairing as shown in the computer renderings we've seen, but maybe that's just me.

Surprisingly, that motorcycle.com article contains several what appear to be inaccuracies, e.g. mistaking the deep sump (even with what looks like the sump plug) for some sort of additional exhaust muffler and the generator for an oversized starter motor. Although, where is the starter motor? Is this new engine perhaps utilising Gold Wing technology and has a combined alternator/starter? Then claiming that the LHS shows a stacked gearbox design seems rather far fetched. The overall shortness of the lower part of the motor does suggest such a (semi) stacked design but that's not really anything to do with what can actually be seen on that side.

Apart from the alternator/starter question, what they didn't mention are the modern design elements such as the very narrow included angle of the valves, in keeping with modern engine design philosophy. But what on earth are those fittings, 2 on each end of the head by the cam ends. They make it look much more like the wider cam spacing of the old racers, but they cannot be just for that surely. It's hard to really tell, but is there some sort of connecting pipe between the inlet ones and between those on the exhaust side? I cannot figure what they might be. What is that nestling under the injector bank behind the cylinders? Is that the starter motor? ABS module? Something else?

What about capacity? If it were me, I'd have opted for 1200, but there's no indication what it is from the pictures. I am disappointed it shows 2 throttle cables as I would have thought RideByWire was de rigueur these days for better throttle control and especially for easy application of Cruise Control. The LH handlebar switch gear seems to have more buttons than required for a simple direct throttle cable controlled injection system. Maybe they've done the same as for the VFR1200 with cables driving a separate Throttle Control Position Sensor (under the bank of inlets?) that the computer reads and then electronically controls the butterflies etc. But that was a daft idea on the VFR (I removed them and replaced with a twist-grip sensor from later FireBlade), so why would they do that on this even later bike? Maybe to maintain even more of a retro look with throttle cables wobbling about from the handlebars. Or maybe the pictures we've seen are wrong. Or maybe the bike doesn't exist and never will. Let's hope that's not the case.

Apart from my reservations over the fairing and low handlebars, I think the styling is spot on. Retro, yet modern which I think is just right. I just hope potential buyers don't get frightened and put off by the 6 cylinders, like last time.
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby wyly » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:23 am

BiKenG wrote:
Michael Vidovic wrote:Apart from my reservations over the fairing and low handlebars, I think the styling is spot on. Retro, yet modern which I think is just right. I just hope potential buyers don't get frightened and put off by the 6 cylinders, like last time.
designs often change from initial concept to finished product, the original had a number of changes so final design choice may not be as the drawings indicate...

after 40 yrs the motorcycling community has seen the errors of it's ways and now realize what an engineering classic the original cbx was, Honda no doubt has been watching the retro trend and contemplating economics and marketability of another cbx...we may know by next week at Intermot or next month in Milan...
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby EMS » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:10 pm

Don't hold on to a short rope. Honda has long ago abandoned their lead in groundbreaking motorcycle designs because nobody in top management supports it anymore.
This being said, do not expect a motorcycle design that has limited target customer base and is too expensive to manufacture.
Some 3 or so years ago, Suzuki filed a patent for a turbo-charged motorcycle engine. Is it out there somewhere and I have missed it?
Have any of you guys checked recently in what shape the motorcycle industry is and in what segment their marketing specialists believe growth is achievable?
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby wyly » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:04 pm

EMS wrote:Don't hold on to a short rope. Honda has long ago abandoned their lead in groundbreaking motorcycle designs because nobody in top management supports it anymore.
This being said, do not expect a motorcycle design that has limited target customer base and is too expensive to manufacture.
Some 3 or so years ago, Suzuki filed a patent for a turbo-charged motorcycle engine. Is it out there somewhere and I have missed it?
Have any of you guys checked recently in what shape the motorcycle industry is and in what segment their marketing specialists believe growth is achievable?
all true but that doesn't stop engineers from designing new models and marketing types from looking for new customers...I don't think they'd be looking at the older declining HD demographic for sales it'll be millennials and retro lovers that they'll be marketing to...and manufacturers do still look to advance technology that'll never stop even with Honda, whether they decide a new cbx is viable and worthwhile pursuing is another matter...I'm not too concerned either way, if they do and I can afford it(and like it) I have my deposit down, if not that's ok too there are other bikes out there that I find interesting, street triple, bmw pure, ducati scrambler...I'm hoping if they proceed that it's simpler bare bones design like the bmw racer and in that price range...
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby EMS » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:30 pm

Companies in today's day and age are not run by enthusiasts anymore, but by bean-counters and MBA-types. Engineers may still design wild things but they will never make it to the market. There is a clear division in large enough companies between "advanced" and "sustaining" engineering. We are in 2018. The direction is electric propulsion. Away from internal combustion and fossil fuels.
Whether that's for you or not. Our generation has maybe 20 years at most to enjoy motorcycles. The last 10 of these will have extremely limited choices of the designs we love. By the time we cannot swing a leg over a bike anymore, I don't think we want to.
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby wyly » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:49 am

the future is electric but that isn't going to happen overnight, I imagine there will be one in my future before I'm done riding... in the meantime gas is still king and the motorcycle giants like Honda won't stop building and developing because of slow sales in the US market, the US market is quite small about 2% of world motorcycle sales, and the number one MC manufacturer, Honda...predictions of Honda getting out of motorcycle sales or not pushing the engineering limits to retain it's sales lead aren't realistic, the US is not the center of the motorcycling world and Honda doesn't only design for the US market...a new CBX wouldn't be just for americans it would be marketed to the other 98% of the mc riding public as well if Honda believes there is a market for it...
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby EMS » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:24 pm

Check the demographics. The other 98% (if that is the rest of the world) have a very limited need and desire for a bike like a new CBX. Honda is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world NOT because of their products over 750cc.
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby wyly » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:19 pm

EMS wrote:Check the demographics. The other 98% (if that is the rest of the world) have a very limited need and desire for a bike like a new CBX. Honda is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world NOT because of their products over 750cc.
and a check of the demographics the entire world has an extremely limited need for a Kawasaki H2R, but yet Kawasaki built it anyway...

honda is the biggest owning about 50% of global mc sales because it knows what the market wants and it's not large displacement bikes even HD is moving overseas to build 250-500cc...I'm sure American market isn't much different than the Canadian, middleweight bikes are very popular and there is a trend toward downsizing even among older demographic away from large displacement rides...notice what size of bikes the latest generation of bike owners are buying? vintage middleweights 350's, 400's, 500's, 650's, 750's(and mostly hondas), inexpensive bikes that can easily modified/personalized, Ducati noticed and answered that desire with their Scrambler lineup it's number one seller, not the large displacement superbikes...middleweight bikes are practical, small, light, nimble, quick/fast and economical the demand for large displacement super bikes is falling, while large displacement rockets may get the big press but it's the smaller bikes where the sales are...


if Honda decides to build another CBX it won't be to make a profit selling CBX'es, it'll be to make a Marketing/R&D statement for it's whole lineup no different than Suzuki made the Hayabusa or Kawasaki the H2R...that being said Honda doesn't have to make any marketing statement becoming dominant global manufacturer of motorcycles has already been achieved, no other company is even close...size is irrelevant...
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby EMS » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:39 am

Well, we will see. It is a well known fact that Honda does not put the same emphasis on the motorcycle business anymore as they used to. All the other Japanese manufacturers rely heavily on their motorcycle segment while Honda does not.
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Re: What do you make of this New CBX article?

Postby wyly » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:24 pm

Kawasaki has it's retro KZ900 now Suzuki has a retro Katana ...but no cbx at Intermot...Honda says it will introduce an entire line of retro cafe's and street fighters on Nov 6 the day before EICMA, the CBX drawings we've seen would definitely be described as Neo Cafe...the Japanese press seems to think it will a naked CB1000RR Fireblade...
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