CBX Racing

CBXs, new bikes, old bikes, cars, trucks, general chat, off topic, this is the place to post it.

Re: CBX Racing

Postby wyly » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:38 pm

good hair for an old guy...
CBX a work in progress, still improving...GS1150EFE completed and awaiting modifications.....RD350, remnants in boxes scattered throughout the garage
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby FalldownPhil » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:39 pm

Thanks gents. I wish the rest of me was holding up as well as my hair :mrgreen:
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:03 am

I can see I will have to join or keep demonstrating that I'm a complete CBX ignoramus (OK, I confess, I ride a BMW on the road - hiss, boo). Now why didn't it occur to me that Moto Martin are still in business? Duh!

That end cap bracing looks like it should be on a yaght and a bit vulnerable if you drop the thing. And is it adjustable too?

But my real question is, does the frame really work at 10/10ths (or thereabouts anyway)?

Not sure you can copyright an industrial design. More a matter of holding a patent registered in the jurisdiction. But no need to worry about plagiarism if they can still be purchased without a mortgage.

Rick.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby cbxmel » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:35 am

Hi Rick,

I believe the latest frames have been modded to do away with the side bracing and yes,they are adjustable. Although you could buy MM forks and rear ends many owners now fit modern items including brakes. There are around fifty MM owners in the UK including some who have fitted alternative engines to the CBX. If you PM me your email address I can scan and send you copy of MM catalogue.

cheers Mel #1876
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:53 pm

Thanks Mel. I have been struggling with my schoolboy French and the online translator to communicate with Georges Martin to find out if he did or does a period monoshock. A brochure would be very helpful. My email is warwickbiggs@iinet.net.au.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:00 am

For future reference the 3.00 x 18 and 2.5 x 18 wheels off the 900FC Bol Dor bolted straight in on my 82 pro-link using the stock spacers. All straight. The only thing I had to do was swap over my 300mm cast iron disks. We even managed to prise off and re-use the old gaskets. Now I have to pull them both off again and go shopping (again) for some race tyres, probably try the Conti RaceAttacks as the 130/18 comes with a reinforced carcass to better handle the weight and torque, altho' the Avons stick well.

The other reason my CBX has been hard to start and farting about when we get it going, apart from mud wasps in the exhausts was water in the carbs, probably as a result of carting it 3,000klms in the pouring rain to Phillip Island and back on an open trailer. Either that or contaminated fuel.

Tomorrow we will try to track down the gremlin in the electrics. Georges has promised me a price list in English in about a week. The pic he sent me of his frame does not have the side struts to the end caps and he runs 18's, not 17's on his race chassis. He tells me the monoshock rear end is an extra 500 Euros so i'm thinking the bare frame with single shock rear is about AUD$6,000 plus freight and taxes. About the same price as a Harris Magnum for a Bol Dor but the Harris brothers don't do a CBX frame.

So far nobody has responded to my question as to whether the Martin frame fully cures the CBX handling problems or is merely a thing of beauty??? It certainly looks sturdier than stock, with straighter frame rails and lots of bracing. I would love to hear from anybody who has raced one with a CBX motor.

Rick.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Jeff Bennetts » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:35 am

FalldownPhil wrote:Thanks gents. I wish the rest of me was holding up as well as my hair :mrgreen:
Phil


It's a beautiful bike Phil and I'm jealous of your bike and hair. 8)

Rick, I don't think I have ever heard of anyone using a MM racing frame in the sanctioned racing classes we have here in the states, I'm by far no expert in USA racing history but I don't think it will be easy to find your answers.

Phil and maybe Ian Foster can guide you to a source, why don't you PM Ian (he is a member here) maybe he knows a source from researching his CBX books and I think he is also having a MM CBX frame being built.

Ian's handle here is cbxian
Good luck
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:00 pm

Thanks for the suggestion Jeff but I don't know what "PM" stands for, nor how to do that. Also, where do I find CBXpress?

Our rules allow replicas of major components like frames provided they can be shown to look like a frame used in the relevant period. If the rules did not allow replicas it would be impossible to continue racing old bikes as original parts become impossible to get. So, if it was manufactured in the period or looks like something that was then it is OK. Similarly our rules allow 17" slick tyres that were simply not around in the late 70's, because its the common race tyre size today and later cast rims provided they 'look period'. My understanding is that means cast mags are OK provided they are 3 spoke, altho' you won't find that spelt out explicitly in the rules. There are also safety considerations when you have unlimited machines making in excess of 175hp and doing 280kph. Vintage bikes do those speeds and more at the Island where MotoGp and superbikes are doing around 330kph. Remember what happened to Barry using those skinny old wheels at Daytona at those speeds.

Similarly, floating calipers and disks are banned unless they were manufactured during the period but you won't find many P5 racers without them. Of course, the 82' CBX had floating calipers as originals but floating disks are also relatively common in the paddock provided they follow a 'period look'.

I had a long chat with Tony Hynes from Western Australia at the Island about his Moto Martin Suzuki GSX1100 which he has campaigned here for many years in our Period 5 (its called the Forgotten Era here but I haven't forgotten THAT much!) which is bikes manufactured up to 1982. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone but I believe Georges Martin was building endurance racers for the Bol Dor during that period. In this class the fastest bikes are Suzuki XR69's and TZ750 Yamahas which were designed and built as all out racers. That makes converting a 260kg CBX into a competitive period race bike a bit of a challenge but I'm convinced its possible.

Rick.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Jeff Bennetts » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:18 pm

Rick, PM stands for Private Message, it's part of the software built into the forum.

You can do a search for Ian's board name( cbxian ), once his threads pop up click on one, find a message by him and click on the PM button, that will take you to your PM box and you can send him a message.

Or go to your user control panel, go to private messages, type cbxian into the (to) field, type your message and hit the send button at the bottom of the page.

Rick, Ian Foster is the creator, writer and editor of the CBX Book I and II, these are table top full volume books, nothing to do with the CBXPress magazine and in there you will find a section on Speacials, Ian did a lot of research, it could benefit you.

If you don't understand my instructions maybe someone can chime in or get someone to show you how to navigate forums, it will help you out imensly in your searches.

Also if you're a member here you have access to the past CBXPressses that have been archived electronically here on the site, there are many articles on road racing, salt flat speed record and 1/4 mile track CBX racers.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby FalldownPhil » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:01 pm

Rick, try this; ian@netvigator.com
This is Ian's email address.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:04 am

Thanks guys. I will consult the oracle.
R.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:44 pm

Ian Foster has provided me with a pic of a Moto Martin CBX at the old Calder circuit here in Oz from the late 70's where the CBX enjoyed one of its first proddy bike victories, so that answers my question about whether the MM frame can be shown to be 'period' and should satisfy the scrutineers. And Roly reckons its acceptable under our rules, too so that puts it beyond question.

But he has also raised questions about whether the MM frame is entirely suitable for racing (as opposed to fast road riding) in the areas of ground clearance if running 17's and associated serviceability where the motor may need to be dropped out of the frame. So these are matters I have sought answers from Georges Martin on using the on line translator.

In the meantime, we will try the bike with the new rims and the stiffer walled Conti race tyres and see if it improves things a bit. The wallowing should also be less of a problem on the slower tracks where the other bugbear of excess weight becomes more important. More track time is the plan.

Rick.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby FalldownPhil » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:55 pm

Rick,
I can't speak too much on the ground clearance although I do have some spirited rides on some very twisty roads without dragging much on the ground.
The weight reduction alone should equate to 10+ HP. That is substantial.
Dropping the engine is about the same as a standard CBX. EZ PEZY.
Best,
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby RJ CB650 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:14 pm

Edit... Deleted lots cause read a page one postings as page five.

Wonder if a different seat to move back can help wallowing? It is quite front heavy so perhaps options to change how the weight sits?
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby wyly » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:54 pm

gauging by the different responses to any handling questions posted on the forum I think there as many solutions as there are are causes...

I know very little compared to most here but my basic high-school physics tells me weight distribution matters, whether that's the cause of your particular handling problem or as to the solution for it I have no idea...
CBX a work in progress, still improving...GS1150EFE completed and awaiting modifications.....RD350, remnants in boxes scattered throughout the garage
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