CBX Racing

CBXs, new bikes, old bikes, cars, trucks, general chat, off topic, this is the place to post it.

Re: CBX Racing

Postby Syscrush » Tue May 07, 2019 9:44 am

Warwick Biggs wrote:There is a race tuner in Queensland (Lindsay Donait) who claims to have built a 165hp CBX race motor that he tried to sell me. These claims are hard to test and come with highly questionable reliability. Roly seems to have his motors running fairly reliably with 130hp. That is probably about the practical imit for the CBX unless you have buckets of dough. There are other air cooled tuners achieving bigger numbers but the motors at this level have a life measured in hours. They require big budgets to race and are hungry monsters. Nice to play with if you have the resources but not practical for a club racer like me.




I think that "half as long" is wildly optimistic, though. :lol:
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Tue May 07, 2019 7:40 pm

Very prescient Phil. Blade Runner was set in a dystopian future 2019 and here we are.

After the Seniors races I'm slotted in to have my eyes re-lensed with multifocal artificial units; something that was shown in the film written back in 1968. I haven't had my memories replaced but I have had my motor skills obliterated and re-constructed.

We are in the midst of a federal election campaign in Oz in which the end of the world is an issue that has basically split the community into religious zealots and radical rationalists (replicants?) while the UN scientific committee is warning of imminent mass extinction. Dick's book and Scott's film were not so far off or far out, after all.

I just want the CBX to run properly this w/e. I've addressed everything I can think of. If it sill farnarcles around I will have to start replacing batteries, coils, pick-ups and wiring connections. Elusive hard to find problems are usually electrickery aren't they?
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Syscrush » Wed May 08, 2019 1:54 pm

Warwick Biggs wrote:Elusive hard to find problems are usually electrickery aren't they?

Depends on how good you are with electricity. :D

I'd suggest that electrical issues are easier to resolve than the weird chaotic fluid dynamics stuff that happens when intake and exhaust aren't cooperating properly, but those issues are probably less common than bad grounds, crosstalk/interference, cracked wires, burned coils, conductive dirt, etc.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Sun May 12, 2019 8:36 pm

The CBX again refused to play at Friday's practice at the track. It started well with a bit of choke but the bogging down when the throttle was opened was worse, not helped by having the quickest action cam installed in the Venhill throttle. At least nothing broke but coming out of the corners the misfire made it dangerous. Opening the taps down the straight demonstrated the suspension changes had improved the rear end that was more compliant. So that was a plus but we need to go back to basics to find the source of the misfire.

Opening the idle screws a quarter turn and dropping the needles a notch had not helped at all. Cylinders 6 and 4 were running at half the temperature of the others but of course, are not on the same coil. I pulled the plugs out on 1 & 6. 1 was fine but 6 was sooty. Drove into the Mount and purchased 2 new hotter DEA8 plugs to put in 4 & 6 but this effected no change. Checked all the electrical connections (there are only 5 wires in the loom) but nothig obvious came to light and I was running out f time. So, I decided to park the CBX and focus my efforts on the NC30.

By this stage the rain was starting to set in and without wets all I could do was reinstall the belly pan and do half a dozen laps between showers. I was runnng Pirelli SuperCorsa SC2's on the 400. I'd put these tyres on for an endurance race late last year and had chosen them for the longer distance race because they are a harder tyre than the SC1. This would turn out to be a problem but with so much attention focused on 'the lump' I was really taking the NC30 for granted.

Race day dawned cold and wet. The brackets had been combined to fit in about 40 races to the 2 day program and so I was thrown in with the unlimited pre-moderns and Period 6 bikes. This included GSXR's and Fireblades, all on full wets. In the wet conditions on my hard cut slicks I managed to qualify on the second to last row and was happy with that. The showers were becoming less frequent and the track was drying, causing consternation amongst my competitors who were in a fit changing back to slicks then back to wets as the rain came down again. I reckoned I was in with a chance of a podium despite my limited capacity and power. as the new lower gearing meant I could take the hairpins without having to change down to first gear and I could use all 6 ratios down the straight.

I had to adjust the clutch 3 times between practice and the first race. I should have pulled off the fairing and checked the push rod but as usual was distracted by people coming up and wanting to talk about the CBX. As members of this forum will know this always happens as the bike is a magnet for enthusiasts, even at meetings were there are heaps of classic machines. Can you see where this is going? Anyhow I just wound out the adjuster again on the clip on as I was sitting on the dummy grid waiting for the warm up lap of the first race. And off we went. It was an unusually quick warm up lap but the little NC30 was feeling lively and I was fairly relaxed as we gridded up in our allocated spots. "Relaxed" is a relative expression as the heart rate usually is up in the 90's b4 any race.

The starter moved off, the red lights came on and went off almost immediately and I let out the clutch. Nothing happened. Then the front wheel shot up as I pulled in the clutch This kangaroo hopping happened 3 or 4 times before I got going not only last but by which time the field was already gone and around the first corner. I pulled the clutch in to change down for the first corner and the lever was flopping around uselessly. Had the cable snapped? I managed to get around in a gear too high and in anger more than anything opened it up and clutchlessly banged down a few gears (that is going up on a race shift) through the fast dog leg. I reached for the clutch again to change up (down) for the next hairpin and it worked normally. What was going on? Bloody diaphragm spring clutches! Why didn't Honda fit a conventional clutch? No time to think about that.

I put my head down and by the second lap I had pulled back the best part of a half a lap deficit and was fast closing on the back markers as I came up to the Watertower. This corner is on the crest of a hill where there used to be a water tower, thus the name. It is approached through a deep flat out right hand dip and is a blind decreasing radius left hander as it goes up over the hill and then down the other side to a hard braking right angle bend that swings back up onto the start/finish straight. You have to go from a full lean to the left to a full lean to the right and this is a real test of how quickly you can flick the bike up from one extreme and down into the opposite extreme.

I came up on a gaggle of bikes as we entered the Watertower much faster than I expected and with my visor fogging up from the exertion and the red mist in full flight I decided to treat them as a group, pass the first bike around the outside giving me the inside line to pass the other 3 going down into the right hander. No sooner had I begun the pass than I realised the guy I was passing was drifting off the racing line to the right. A blocking move? But I was travelling much faster and was committed so I drifted out wider increasing my lean angle and hanging off to hold it in as tight as I dared. And then the front washed out without any warning and I hit the deck very hard knocking me out as my head smashed into the ground.

In the difficult, cold conditions I was carried away and made the most basic mistake. I was focusing on the bike in front, thinking 2 corners ahead and not focused on my own lines. Later, a rider with 30 years experience of the track came up and offered the advice that nobody passes around the outside on the Watertower because as you move to the right hand side the camber turns negative just as you crest the hill and the suspension unloads. Thanks for the advice. Why do they always tell you these things AFTERWARDS? One day I will have time to walk around the track and study it properly.

I pushed those SC2's past their limit and am paying the price as I type this in bed with my hands covered in bandages and a very sore neck that no matter how I lie, hurts like hell. Both bikes are back in the workshop and I don't feel like going near them for a while. I'm sore and sorry but will be OK. The guy who hobbled into the medic's room as I was leaving was not so lucky. He ended up in Mount Gambier hospital with 3 screws in his ankle. But I destroyed another $1,000 dollar helmet, my left boot is shredded, my left glove was torn off and my leathers need fixing too, not to mention the damage to the bike which looks fairly superficial but will cost another $500 minimum, if only to get rid of those tyres. If you ever get the urge to go racing, resist it. Its worse than heroin. Its dangerous, expensive and highly addictive, whatever bike you ride. Every bike is inherently unstable and evil and the CBX is 6 times as evil. I'm thinking of a ritual cremation, a 3 metre high pyramid of red gum logs with 'the lump' up top. Whoof!
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Gearheadgregg » Sun May 12, 2019 9:48 pm

Haha great report , Does sound fun . and those diaphragm springs give me trouble also . I have a Barnett Racing and it wont hold in 5th when i pull the NOS trigger my GL 1500 , Now i am gonna pull the HD Barnett diaphragm and double up 2 stock ones for more grab, Greg
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Mon May 13, 2019 12:10 am

Here is Von, one of my contemporaries from racing in the 70's giving me the low down. Wayne Von Einem is a life member of the Mount Gambier MCC and was a top 125 racer in his day but is now sadly doubled over and crippled with spondylitis. He never misses a meeting and shuffles around on a well worn zimmer frame with his mind as sharp as ever. "Never pass around the outside over the Watertower"
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Syscrush » Mon May 13, 2019 9:57 am

Thanks for another gripping report.

So sorry to hear about the KO. I sometimes wonder what my position will be if my kids express an interest in racing when they get a bit older. I have a blanket "no concussion sports" policy, and the prospect of anyone I really care about getting their bell rung is something I weigh heavily. I'd take your buddy's 3 ankle screws over a concussion any day.

Good luck with getting stuff sorted out - I believe in my heart that the day is coming when that X is gonna do exactly what you want and need of it.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Mon May 13, 2019 7:13 pm

I wish I could share your optimism Phil but my pit crew are on strike and want to turn the CBX into an artificial reef. Fran blames the sequence of events leading up to the crash on distractions with the lump. There is some merit in that opinion. Taking 2 bikes was too ambitious. Even if the CBX had behaved I would have been coming in from a race and immediately hopping onto the other bike for the next race and I'm just not that physically fit.

One of the more experienced historic racers who was garaged next to me more helpfully suggested sprinkling caustic soda crystals over the brass jets out of the CR's and pouring hot water on them. His view was that carb cleaner was not entirely successful in removing the varnish residue that unleaded fuels produce. Then keeping the float bowls topped up with avgas between races. When I get back into the workshop I will have a lot to do but those carbs will definitely have to come off again.

As for racing, its a hell of a lot less dangerous than riding on the road. Most of my contemporaries have died in road crashes, even some top pro racers. At the track everybody is wearing good gear, ready for a crash, travelling in the same direction and there are qualified medics on hand to deal with any injuries. I don't have concussion and was only out for less than a minute or two. My neck is sore but I think it is mainly soft tissue injury. I was thoroughly checked over by the medics and my Kabuto helmet was impounded by the Chief Steward. Our race licences are automatically suspended here after a crash until we obtain a clearance to resume racing from our GP's, so I will book myself in for another check up in a week or so. There are much higher safety standards these days than back in the 70's and insurance makes up a big part of our race fees.

One of the nicest things about racing is the number of families competing together. It really is a family sport and there are a lot of father/son/daughter and husband & wife (partner) teams. I wouldn't worry too much if your kids want to go racing. Its a lot better than some of the alternatives. I was concussed as a kid playing footy when i ran full pelt into a goal post only to wake up to see all these sprigged boots descending on my head as the scrum followed.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to the first stage of getting my eyes fixed. I haven't enjoyed 20/20 vision since my 20's.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Syscrush » Tue May 14, 2019 12:54 pm

Warwick Biggs wrote:I wish I could share your optimism Phil but my pit crew are on strike and want to turn the CBX into an artificial reef. Fran blames the sequence of events leading up to the crash on distractions with the lump. There is some merit in that opinion. Taking 2 bikes was too ambitious. Even if the CBX had behaved I would have been coming in from a race and immediately hopping onto the other bike for the next race and I'm just not that physically fit.

Good luck sorting it out.

One of the more experienced historic racers who was garaged next to me more helpfully suggested sprinkling caustic soda crystals over the brass jets out of the CR's and pouring hot water on them. His view was that carb cleaner was not entirely successful in removing the varnish residue that unleaded fuels produce. Then keeping the float bowls topped up with avgas between races. When I get back into the workshop I will have a lot to do but those carbs will definitely have to come off again.

What are the supposed advantages of avgas over race gas? There's no way that lead is helping to stabilize the fuel in the carb's float bowls.

Anyhow, I don't mind saying that your adventures are making me more steadfast in my determination to convert by bike to EFI and leave the carbs behind.

I don't have concussion and was only out for less than a minute or two.

That's definitely a concussion.

One of the nicest things about racing is the number of families competing together. It really is a family sport and there are a lot of father/son/daughter and husband & wife (partner) teams. I wouldn't worry too much if your kids want to go racing.

That family element is a big part of the appeal - as is the prospect of my kids having a shot at being so much cooler than their old man. :lol: They're so young now that it's not even on the radar, so I can defer judgement.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Tue May 14, 2019 7:48 pm

Thanks Phil, I hadn't considered the effect of the 100mg of aspirin I take daily and your link made me think. Aspirin is pretty much de rigeur for anybody whose suffers a stroke or is just over the age of 60 but just as it meant there was more blood flowing from my hand injuries, the same would apply to the brain. You were absolutely right to point this out.

I did tell the medic about the meds and the first thing he checked b4 my limbs was my pupils. It is now 3 days since the crash and today I was going to clear up some coastal wattle that I chainsawed last week but I think I'll give that a miss for a bit longer. I feel fine apart from my neck but even that is no longer as stiff or sore. In these circumstances its easy to be blase` when you just want to move on and get back to normal. I have a meeting with a politician this evening that I would like to postpone too but there are some things that can't wait.

Back to the CBX, I'm still suspicious of the coils and thinking idly about a coil over plug conversion but not sure how feasible this might be.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Rick Pope » Tue May 14, 2019 9:33 pm

Phil said: "What are the supposed advantages of avgas over race gas? There's no way that lead is helping to stabilize the fuel in the carb's float bowls."

Av gas is formulated to sit in the large tanks, in the sun, and not deteriorate, much. I think it's more like the gas of old rather than todays gas, which is designed to burn, not store.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Thu May 16, 2019 7:15 pm

Avgas is now banned in both racing and flying in Oz because of its lead content. These applications had enjoyed long running exemptions from the anti pollution legislation of the 80's but eventually had to go. A lot of that lead was mined in Oz and the consequences can clearly and sadly be seen (especially in the children) in those mining communities.

Many of our local flyers are now scratching their heads trying to work out how to convert their aircraft to run on PULP. They've had over 30 years to figure this out but that hasn't been long enuf' for some.

The advantages that Simon Cook extolled covered both his Period 4 bikes running methanol and his XR69 replica that runs on PULP. The bikes running methanol have to be drained after each excursion because the fuel will eventually dissolve the rubber seals and any tank lining. If left dry some of these materials may then crack and as Rick points out, avgas is more stable as well as containing less additives. On the P5 XR69 Simon was until recently allowed to run avgas in races but as he has a stock of it, now he just uses it for laying up the bikes between races.

All these fuel hassles will soon be a thing of the past as we transition to electric bikes. In sharp contract to the CBX they are ridiculously simple in terms of moving parts, only requiring refinement of battery technology and a sound track.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Gearheadgregg » Thu May 16, 2019 10:41 pm

Hard to find Ethanol free fuel in the US ,We have a Shell gas station in Rhode Island that sells Racing fuel at the pump, Also my next door neighbor has a small Airport and sells me AV gas 100 LL. My CBX sits a lot for weeks and months, Av fuel has no Ethanol big difference on Carb problems and storage , My bowls get drained constantly. But ! My Supercharged GL1500 works much better on the Ethanol fuel much slower flame burn cooler for detonation help,Along with a Dyna 3000 ign w/timing retard, Always ran AV gas in my Race boats also cheaper than Race fuel
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby EMS » Fri May 17, 2019 8:28 am

Ethanol free gas doesn't have to be Avgas or high octane race gas. Most, if not all, marine gas fuels are ethanol free and you can find it at pumps where there is boating activity nearby.
We have a street gas Marathon station 2 miles away from me close to a mall that sells ethanol free gas right out of a pump.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby EMS » Fri May 17, 2019 5:26 pm

We are on the 33rd page of this thread now. With interest (and sometimes amusement) I have read all the tribulations Warwick has put himself through. I have not participated or contributed anything of value, mainly because I have seen many attempts of racing a CBX competitively - most of them futile. The CBX was never a bike that was successful on the track, neither when new nor as a vintage racer. And, really, it was never intended to be. The engineering marvel was a tempting platform for many to take it to the races and make it run away from the competition. Alas, even in the Honda stable, there were more capable specimen. There were reasons, why there is a Honda nicknamed "Bol d'Or" and there was a CB1100R.
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