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Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:00 am
by Warwick Biggs
Yes Phil, sorry to say its not that simple to bring the money with the interest but nevertheless, I'm glad that anybody finds this rather self absorbed thread at all interesting. A few years ago after the 2016 Island Classic I (and a number of other competitors) was contacted by an English promoter who wanted to take the whole show to Donnington and stage a similar event there. He would pay for a container and possibly fares and accommodation. I think he was genuinely keen and a number of people put up their hands but unfortunately he couldn't pull it off. Having said that, the Island Classic was filmed this year and will be broadcast in Oz, the UK and Europe this coming Sunday so keep your eye out for it on Fox Sports or your local sports network. Its' a post produced 2 hour special and I will be interested to see if they picked up the horrific crash involving Pridmore, Beaton and the Vincent. I've never seen anything like it.

Bigger news, (DahDeDeDAH!) is that after the CBX disgraced itself yet AGAIN at the coaching session I stripped the carbs and cleaned the jets AGAIN and measured and set the floats AGAIN and because I had the vernier calipers in my hand I decided to measure everything b4 pulling the needles and adjusting them AGAIN. Can you guess what I found? I'll give you a hint; I purchased a bank of six 31mm CR's from a guy in Thailand.... Sound like the beginning of a story of underhand dealings, deceit and human trafficking? No, wrong. No shonkyness at all. I eventually got to the bottom of the story but can't publish it yet because I'm not sure if there will be a happy ending. Remember the old aphorism that between a conspiracy and a stuff up its nearly always the latter? Suffice to say there was one 31mm carb in the bank but the rest were all 29's. No wonder the thing wouldn't fuel properly.

All the experts missed it because the smoothbore carbs are externally identical and don't have any markings to indicate bore sizes which is very helpful thanks Keihin - NOT! Nobody thought to actually measure the bores assuming they were all the same and 31's. Roly has offered to lend me a set until we can sort out the stuff up but the good news is that even with 5 cylinders flooding and only one clean plug it has still been making 110hp on the dyno so I think I can expect another 10hp at least and possibly find that elusive missing 1,000rpm up top. We live in hope. Heh! after what happened to me in 2014 I am a firm believer in the possibilities around the corner. Of course, it could be the man in the long black coat holding a scythe but you never know. At the moment I'm just pleased that I've finally solved the mystery of why the damned thing wouldn't fuel properly.

As ever, to be continued...
R.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:39 pm
by Syscrush
Warwick Biggs wrote:At the moment I'm just pleased that I've finally solved the mystery of why the damned thing wouldn't fuel properly.

That is magnificent news!

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:51 am
by Warwick Biggs
Well, yes and no. As it turns out I had to drill down further to find that the carbs are in fact all 31's but the inlet manifolds on the carbs are mis-matched. They are a screw in part with a rubber 'O' ring to seal the join.

Racing involves a fair amount of trial and error to get things as right as they can be. In the case of smooth bore CR carbs they apparently all come with the same 29mm inlet manifolds. At least on the cylinder end. The other internal end is stepped out to match the bore size of the carby from 29 - 35mm. Some tuners modify the manifolds to improve gas flow and I have now seen manifolds machined into a fine taper from 29-31mm and others bored out all the way through to match the bore of the carby. In fact that is exactly how my carbs were mis-matched. Five tapered manifolds and one bored straight out to 31mm

That is good news in that I now only need to match up the manifolds altho' choosing the right one is still an issue. More problematic is that this incident has damaged my relationship with my tuner, Roland Skate. It remains to be seen whether we can salvage anything positive from the whole schemozzle....

In the meantime I have the back end apart again to have a custom extension to my rear shock made up. Currently my Wilbers has a 0 - 6mm ride height extension. I want to try a 0 - 25mm extension in the search for a better compromise between handling and ground clearance.

I'm also changing the throttle and cables with a customised set up of my own making, using a set of British Venhill racing cams and throttle tube. And the fans of my 6 into 6 exhausts may be disappointed to hear that I am thinking of replacing mine with Bill brint's new six into one system.

And here is a pic from my very forgettable 3 days of racing on the NC30 at the Mac Park Classic Masters series. It was the first official race for the 400 and we need to make some changes to it as well...
R.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:29 am
by Syscrush
Conflicts with your supplier/tuner is a very tough situation to navigate. On top of who's right or wrong, or who was damaged by whom by the initial screw-up, you have to ask yourself who will be hurt more if the relationship goes sour.

I was sent some incorrect parts from someone who really should know much better, and when I expressed my concerns about it, they doubled down and gave a BS explanation of why I was wrong and the parts were right. I ultimately dropped it and just got the right stuff from a local supplier, because sorting it out on my end cost me one Saturday and a few hundred bucks - while getting in a pissing match with an important player for keeping my CBX going long-term could cost me much, much more than that over the years. Good luck getting things sorted out with RS (or in finding a way to just eat the loss and move on).

Those exhausts that TIMS are selling look amazing. Everything that MotoGP Werks sells looks amazing - at least in the promotional photos. I have heard conflicting reports about their fitment and final QA - with some people extremely happy with their products, and others really disappointed. The recurring theme seems to be great welding but occasional problems with fitment. The owner of MGW has been pretty active in some forum drama and has ended up banned from a few sites - but if you're dealing with TIMS, you should be well insulated from that kind of stuff. Do your own research, and hope for the best. If you do end up having to make some tweaks to fit that setup, it would obviously not be the only fiddling your bike has needed.

If I wasn't so attached to my Gary Wolf exhaust, I would look very, very hard at that 6-into-1 - IMO even if I got unlucky and it needed some work to fit, it would be worth it.

Thanks for the update and good luck!

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:31 am
by Mouse
I must have been one of the lucky ones.
My MotoGPwerks unit does need some minor manhandling ( cyl 2 pipe 1/8" to the right) when fitting but overall its a nice unit. Just remember that changing the oil means you have to remove the exhaust, theres no way around that. Also you may have to run smaller jets.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:33 pm
by Warwick Biggs
Hmm, interesting. Bill B. told me you still have access to filter and drain plug, even with the extended sump. Are you sure they are the same? Pulling the pipes off every time wouldn't be a drama if they were attached with springs but having to undo 12 x 10mm nuts every would be a bit annoying.

I pulled my 6 into 6 apart (it comes in 3 basic parts - headers,collector box and mufflers) and weighed it. 25.5 lbs compared with 15 for the 6 into one. More importantly I discovered scrape marks on the bottom of the headers at the first bend. That might have contributed to my Phillip Island high side as it would transmit directly to the front wheel.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:58 am
by Warwick Biggs
These are the new TIMS 6 into 1 pipes. I think they are made by Dukevic?? Bill has just fitted them to his racer. $895 plus shipping.

He says access to drain plug and filter is good and they fit both prolink and twin shocks. Is this what you guys are referring to?

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:19 am
by Warwick Biggs
Here is a good pic of the lump from last October's Broadford races that I found on the net (sorry about the owner's watermark).

It is good because it shows how well tucked in my pipes are and you can also see Colin Marley's billet crank end caps that I'm gradually wearing away on both sides. the part of the exhaust that scrapes on most bikes is usually at the rear around the base of the mufflers or the collector box but on mine it is the first bend at the bottom of numbers 1 and 6 cylinders right at the front. At this point both the crank ends and exhaust are scraping and that is why I need to find more ground clearance and alter my riding style.
R.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:25 am
by cbxmel
The pipes are made by Delkevic which is subsiduary of D& K motorcyles probably the largest classic bike outlet in the UK. I was involved in the design of their original replica six into two pipes. Mel #18976

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am
by Syscrush
Warwick Biggs wrote:These are the new TIMS 6 into 1 pipes. I think they are made by Dukevic?? Bill has just fitted them to his racer. $895 plus shipping.

He says access to drain plug and filter is good and they fit both prolink and twin shocks. Is this what you guys are referring to?


Sorry, we were talking about different things! Here's the MotoGP Werks one that I found on the TIMS site:

Image

Image

Image

I assumed that this is what you were talking about because the site has this description:

TIMS now has new 6/1 exhaust syetems available --these are stainless steel headers with a custom moto gp style header They have equal length headers for more hp than the old Kerker style pipes and equivalent back pressure, and it is a 1 piece header for ease of installation.comes with mounting springs and crush washers to mount them with


To me, the MotoGP Werks one looks like it would be more suitable for racing purposes than the other (that 90° bend freaks me out a bit).

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:27 am
by Mouse
Warwick Biggs wrote:These are the new TIMS 6 into 1 pipes. I think they are made by Dukevic?? Bill has just fitted them to his racer. $895 plus shipping.

He says access to drain plug and filter is good and they fit both prolink and twin shocks. Is this what you guys are referring to?


Well those are different to my MotoGP's.
Mine are the ones Phil posted.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:45 pm
by Warwick Biggs
So, I'm gad we got that sorted out and Mel, are the 6 into 2's still available and do you think they would they be suitable for a race bike?

Purely from an aesthetic point of view it would be nice to maintain a nodding acquaintance with the original CBX design and I'm less concerned about a few hp than I am about increasing ground clearance. Going to 17" wheels is the source of my problem and if I can't solve it by lifting my suspension I may have to go back to the 18" wheeels. I had hoped the headstock mod of pulling the rake back to 24 degrees would offset the loss of clearance but it was not enuf'.
R.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:01 pm
by cbxmel
Hello again,

They are exact replica of the Sankei originals fitted to the 78 1000Z so I would not think they would be suitable for racing with the restrictive baffles. I will try and find out if still available.
Mel UK #1876 :auto-sportbike: :flags-wavegreatbritain: :flags-usa: :flags-usa: :flags-canada: :flags-australia:

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:12 pm
by Warwick Biggs
Thanks mate but I have worked out they have a local distributor in OZ and they are available but at twice the price of the 6 into 1 and you are right; not suitable for racing. Now enquiring locally. Duh!
R.

Re: CBX Racing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:49 pm
by EMS
The very best exhaust for racing the CBX, i.e.: operating the motor mostly above 6000 rpm is the stainless steel Schuele 6-1. Schuele invested a lot of time tuning the exhaust headers for maximum performance.Unfortunately, he no longer makes it. A few of them made it to the U.S. I had one myself, but I sold it. Personally, I do not like the unbalanced look of a one-sided muffler on a street bike. And the Schuele performance did not suit my riding style here in the US, which is lumbering around at lower rpm and rolling on the throttle from 1800-2000 rpm in a higher gear.
The Delkevic exhaust shown looks like a Bassani copy to me and the Moto-GP one is somewhat similar to the Schuele.


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