CBX Racing

CBXs, new bikes, old bikes, cars, trucks, general chat, off topic, this is the place to post it.

Re: CBX Racing

Postby steve murdoch icoa #5322 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:47 am

Sort of the same story on '80s Endurance racing in the States.
I semi-remember reading motorcycle magazine articles about the 24 hour at Nelson Ledges, a 12 hour at Elkhart Lake and maybe Loudon?
Even the 4 hours were called Sprints.

Rick, i guess i am in the sentimental romantic camp instead of the gene pool.
Come from a big family and there is a big family after me and not a single rider anywhere.
hmmm...maybe i should get one of those family tree checks done. haha.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Investigating the nature and nurture conundrum is no joke. The nazis gave eugenics a bad name but the human genome project has concluded we are fairly simple biological machines with only about 23,000 genes involved in our bio-determinism. Is there a gene for motorcycling and do we have a biological memory? Is this why we are destined to repeat history and make the same old mistakes?

Science tells us there is a link albeit it hasn't developed a comprehensive map yet.

We now know that the neurology of our brains makes us creatures of habit and that the electrical pathways become more efficient with use and repetition. When I lost a significant part of my brain, as a result of my stroke, somehow it re-wired itself around the destroyed sectors. In my case it was the basal ganglia that was obliterated. This is the part of the brain that deals with motor functions. So, whilst I can still remember what it feels like to have a bike in a controlled slide or to hit a tennis ball in the 'sweet spot' on the racquet, actually replicating it is another matter. In fact I have had to go back to the basics of re=establishing those neurological pathways and then thru' repetition, gradually improving and refining my motor skills. Ergo, the appeal of an endurance race as a tool in my medicine chest.

So romance may be a healthy trait if it provides the motivation to improve and that habit may leave a biological residue that persists thru' the generations. Steve, I recommend you interrogate your genes and you can start here:- https://www.medpagetoday.com/genetics/g ... ting/37756
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:59 pm

Sorry Steve, that was a bad link. Here is a link directly to the Personal Genome Project Canada and I encourage all Canuckleheads to look at it. Interrogating your genes will tell you a lot about yourself and your wider family and you will also be participating in a a public service. I predict that somewhere in our junk DNA there is a gene for CBX enthusiasts. It probably comes in a sequence of 6 proteins.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:04 pm

And I didn't put it in... here it is https://personalgenomes.ca/
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:54 am

'The Lump' is for sale. Not that I'm in any hurry as there are still a few more refinements that I have in mind. Here is the linkk, more for those folk who are curious about what you need to do to make a CBX into a competitive race bike that can keep up with pukka racers:-
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/nelson/ ... tent=image

R.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Syscrush » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:37 am

I admit that it hurts a bit to read that, but obviously it's your bike and your life and you don't owe the rest of us anything. I hope that the sale goes well.

Thanks for everything that you've shared so far, and I hope you'll stick around.
Phil in Toronto
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby steve murdoch icoa #5322 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:41 am

Syscrush wrote:I admit that it hurts a bit to read that, but obviously it's your bike and your life and you don't owe the rest of us anything. I hope that the sale goes well.

Thanks for everything that you've shared so far, and I hope you'll stick around.


Well said, Phil.

Rick, i hope the NC30 will now scratch the "racing" itch you have had all these years.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:26 pm

It's OK. I'll continue to persist with the CBX until somebody makes me an offer I cannot refuse. In fact the bike has been for sale for ages. When I topple off my perch my executor need only alter the price. Just succession planning really. In the meantime, I will continue with development.

I posted the link so that anybody who is interested can immediately see what has been done and the current stage of development. Maybe somebody else would be crazy enuf' to want to convert a CBX for racing. Here is a guide to what is required. If somebody is keen to buy it, I might convert another. Geniune CBX racers are rare, after all, especially after CBX maestro Roland Skate retired his bikes from racing.

The NC30 is just a practice bike. My main focus remains the CBX. However, the CBX is relatively high maintenance. Not as bad as the Katanas and race replicas but not something you can just hop on for a track day. For a start, tuned air cooled motors wear out faster than their liquid cooled offspring and in line 6's get very hot, as you no doubt have noticed . In race mode, temperatures can exceed 280 C which is when the oil starts to oxidise.

In fact, this is probably the biggest performance limitation of the CBX. And the more power you extract, the less life in the motor. In the competitive Historic Race bike class air cooled motors are generally classified by the number of hours they have done. The top bikes come with brand new, fresh motors in multiples of half a dozen. You may only get one race or practice out of a motor and it is not uncommon to see motors being replaced between races at events like the International Island Classic. One of the attractions of the Katanas is that you can still buy the cases brand new from Hamamatsu and then everything that goes into them is bespoke engineered. These bikes are circulating not far off modern World Superbike times with comparable budgets and professional riders.

The fact that I can turn up with a mildly tuned genuine 36 year old street bike and not be entirely embarrassed by the internationals on their hot rods is a great thrill, let me assure you.

R.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:14 pm

The 3 Hour Endurance race we entered was cancelled due to insufficient entries. I am losing count of the number of long distance races entered but not ridden, all for different reasons. Bike problems, co-rider pulling a hernia after falling off in practice, weather and fashion have all been factors. These days it seems that everyone just wants to go gangbusters for 10 minutes in sprint races.

So we spent the 2 days at the track practising on the little NC30 and dropped our best lap time on the CBX by 2 seconds, consistently.
Still cleaned up by a couple of 14 year olds on very loud 300's.

In an effort to attract new blood the FIM is encouraging national regulators to allow juniors to be able to race with seniors. I don't think a 9 year old has the maturity, emotional or intellectual development to safely compete with seniors in a dangerous sport, particularly road racing. I don't care how fast or seemingly bullet proof they are. I heard an interesting comment from a young racer recently. Dallas Skeer, a 16 year old has graduated from 125's and is the youngest competitor in the Australian Supersport championship. He started very young with parents willing to pour big money into their child's sport.

After his first season of pro racing where he did incredibly well to finish in the top 10 his comment was to the effect that he couldn't believe how aggressive the riders were and that you have to be prepared to crash regularly. Hmm, shades of the gladiator and the Spanish flu' methinks.

R.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Syscrush » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:30 am

Warwick Biggs wrote:So we spent the 2 days at the track practising on the little NC30 and dropped our best lap time on the CBX by 2 seconds, consistently.

:o That is remarkable. How much of that do you think was just getting to know the track better over 2 days, and how much was other factors? Do you know where/how you picked up those 2 seconds?

Still cleaned up by a couple of 14 year olds on very loud 300's.

:D That's just the way of the world.

In an effort to attract new blood the FIM is encouraging national regulators to allow juniors to be able to race with seniors. I don't think a 9 year old has the maturity, emotional or intellectual development to safely compete with seniors in a dangerous sport, particularly road racing. I don't care how fast or seemingly bullet proof they are.

You're a lot closer to it than I am, but I'm of 2 minds about this. It almost reminds me of the model of having daycares run in old age homes. Maybe there's a chance for some sharing of experience, knowledge, and enthusiasm? Also, might being on the track with the older riders help the young riders develop more maturity by example?
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:32 am

Hi Phil,

A bit of both really but I found I was looking further ahead into the next bend which is a good indicator of improved times. The NC30 is so light and chuckable compared with the CBX but not having to worry about scraping the cases means I can ride the tyres almost to the rims. Maybe a bit of the improvement is the Pirelli Supercorsas SC2's too.

Day care in old age homes? Is that because the grandparents become de facto child minders for parents who don't have time to look after their kids properly or the increasing prevalence of dementia in the community?

I looked at your bike pics and it looks good to my eye apart from that low slung muffler.

What is the weight and specs of the alternator? I presume it runs permanently and has lost the clever but poorly designed CBX crab claw mechanism ?

The TC's look solid and it looks like you have pretty much adopted the front Prolink geometry on 18 inch boomerangs. I have found that the best compromise between quick modern sport bike handling and ground clearance is a 24 degree rake (as opposed to stock 28.5 Prolink rake) and 18" Boomerang wheels,. This was acheived by cutting the Prolink steering head and re-welding. For racing I run 11 kilo front springs with smaller valving to stiffen up the front with an adjustable rear ride height Wilbers unit to get a 12 degree swing arm angle. Continental make their treaded super sticky RaceAttacks in 18" diameter and they are available with an extra strong carcass that handles the weight of the CBX and give excellent feel and traction. They should have a road legal street version.

Going to 17" wheels provides a wider tyre choice but at the expense of ground clearance altho' on a road bike this is less of an issue because you are unlikely to be spending much time at extreme lean angles. But then you will want wider rims too and you'll lose the period look so I think on balance sticking with the 18's is the best.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Syscrush » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:27 pm

Warwick Biggs wrote:A bit of both really but I found I was looking further ahead into the next bend which is a good indicator of improved times. The NC30 is so light and chuckable compared with the CBX but not having to worry about scraping the cases means I can ride the tyres almost to the rims. Maybe a bit of the improvement is the Pirelli Supercorsas SC2's too.

I misunderstood - I thought that the practice on the NC30 brought the CBX times down by 2 seconds. Still a great result. :)

Day care in old age homes? Is that because the grandparents become de facto child minders for parents who don't have time to look after their kids properly or the increasing prevalence of dementia in the community?

There's a nice article in the link I posted above - it's a daycare in the same building as an old age home, and they have some scheduled time with the kids together with the oldsters. It's good for both and kind of heart-warming. I think I would have benefited from something like this - I'm almost 50 and oldsters still kind of freak me out a bit. :D

What is the weight and specs of the alternator? I presume it runs permanently and has lost the clever but poorly designed CBX crab claw mechanism ?

It's a 400W Denso/Kawasaki alternator. I don't know about the weight. I know that it's ugly as hell compared to the stocker, but that it is more reliable and easier to live with. It does run via a permanent/direct connection to the jackshaft instead of the clutch/pawl/whatever setup on the OEM solution. I got the refurbed alternator and mounting kit from JR Luksik aka CBX-tras. More info here.

The TC's look solid and it looks like you have pretty much adopted the front Prolink geometry on 18 inch boomerangs. I have found that the best compromise between quick modern sport bike handling and ground clearance is a 24 degree rake (as opposed to stock 28.5 Prolink rake) and 18" Boomerang wheels,. This was acheived by cutting the Prolink steering head and re-welding. For racing I run 11 kilo front springs with smaller valving to stiffen up the front with an adjustable rear ride height Wilbers unit to get a 12 degree swing arm angle. Continental make their treaded super sticky RaceAttacks in 18" diameter and they are available with an extra strong carcass that handles the weight of the CBX and give excellent feel and traction. They should have a road legal street version.

The bike is on an 18" front and 17" rear from the Canadian CB1100F. I will upgrade to an 18x3" rear before the bike goes back on the road. I started out planning on a move to 17" rubber, but three things happened: I fell in love with the boomies, I decided that even though I don't use the ground clearance I am unwilling to give it up for philosophical reasons (and some practical, since I wanted lower pegs), and I started to find that 17" wheels with the long OEM forks tend to make the front end look gawky - even moreso if you extend the stock forks to compensate for the lost clearance.

I did not really adopt Prolink geometry - I took out about 1° of rake by raising the rear, and I took out a bit under 10mm of trail by increasing the offset on those triples. My geometry mods are not as extreme as yours, but for a street-ridden bike the improvement for me was genuinely shocking. I expect that the Superbike bend bars contribute, too. Turn-in on the big fat 'X is now comparable to my wife's Monster 620. It does not compare to the razor-sharp response of a dedicated sportbike.

Equally important (but less surprising) are the improvements from the full-cartridge AK-20 internals and the 4-piston Brembo brakes (with CM55 Braking pads). That front end is so well-composed now. The gas-charged and custom-valved shocks are obviously a huge difference, too. Single finger trail-braking over broken/rough pavement is just a non-issue now. When I got the bike, the braking and damping were so awful it was legit scary - the brakes are so strong that if I hadn't also upgraded the fork internals at the same time I think it would still be scary.

Thanks for the pointers on the Contis - I was already planning on trying some 18" Conti radials, and you've made me more confident in that decision.

Going to 17" wheels provides a wider tyre choice but at the expense of ground clearance altho' on a road bike this is less of an issue because you are unlikely to be spending much time at extreme lean angles. But then you will want wider rims too and you'll lose the period look so I think on balance sticking with the 18's is the best.

That period look is important to me, as long as the period stuff looks good. I have a burning hatred of the 5-spoke Comstar wheels, and would not have kept them if I had bought a bike with them. My goal is to have a bike that behaves like a modern machine, but that from 20' looks pure period-correct. That goal extends to choices like the shape of the rotor carriers - I hunted and hunted for something that would provide the least obscuring of the boomies, and I had the adapter hubs anodized to match the wheels so it looks as close as possible to an OEM fitment.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback and kind words. Like many others here, I always enjoy your updates!
Phil in Toronto
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:28 am

DSCF1265.JPG
Time for some more pics.
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:29 am

And Mick Grant...
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Re: CBX Racing

Postby Warwick Biggs » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:31 am

Sammy Miller on the Gilera/4...
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