CBX Racing

CBXs, new bikes, old bikes, cars, trucks, general chat, off topic, this is the place to post it.
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Syscrush
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Syscrush »

What an inspiring story. My old man had already retired when he had a pretty serious stroke - he had severe aphasia and the right side of his body was entirely paralyzed. Then when in the course of treatment he had a chest x-ray which revealed a cancerous tumor in his left lung and he needed surgery, from which he is now recovering. As you might imagine, it's been a pretty trying 4 months to this point. But even now just a week after having 1/2 of his left lung removed through a hole in his chest, he's up and about - although he needs a walker. All this to say that I'm very pleased that despite your stroke you've been able to get to a point where you can not only go play around on a track, but actually have aspirations of success there!

Like many others, I'll continue to watch this with great interest.

Also:
Warwick Biggs wrote:Image
NICE WHEELS! :lol:
Phil in Toronto
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Pics of Perry, my '79.

Warwick Biggs
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

I appreciate your candid story Syscrush and I do offer other stroke survivors hope for recovery. The brain is an amazing organ and my experience is by no means unique. I received a lot of support. The first 6 months after a stroke are critical. Its not easy and it is necessary to push hard and aspire to recover all functions, no matter whether it seems unrealistic as you are struggling against a body that seems useless. The brain can re-wire itself but it won't just happen by itself. You have to re-learn a lot of stuff like how to talk, walk and then run. If you've been struck dumb by lightning, it is tangible proof that you are on borrowed time and you have to really grasp the day - terrible cliche but its true. In my case it also led to the identification of an underlying heart problem (that 20% of people have) so it is important to identify the cause of the stroke. That search took nearly 2 years working thru' all the possibilities and I only persisted because of a strong talking too from a senior nursing sister when my then doctor was coming up with platitudes like 'Its just the luck of the draw'. In the meantime I found it hard to accept that the stats were stacked against me surviving another decade. Finally, finding the cause gave me hope of beating the odds.

Now for some CBX info that somebody might find helpful. According to Larry at Dynatek Dyna S coils generate around 400 volts and absorb about 3-3.5 amps each. This means even a 400cca deep cycle lithium battery will not run a bike on total loss (no generator and only draw ignition) for much over half an hour.

According to Ignatech these Dyna coils are compatible with their TCIP4 programmable ignition despite the high voltage. The program itself is not so straight forward, however. The CBX is not in the drop down bike menu located above the advance curve in the application file but comes as 2 attached files that in later versions of Windows must be opened from the desktop. One is for a bike running its standard mechanical advance. The other makes more sense with the auto advance removed and the rotor locked at idle on the base 10 degree advance. None of this information is in the accompanying manual. The former has more limited functionality. The latter offers more tuning options, particularly for those running turbos where the CBX's notorious timing sensitivity is acute.

After retrieving the bike from Bathurst with a new head, valves, etc (thanks RPE) we took the bike to Wakefield Park for the 1 Hour Endurance race last Sunday and had a host of problems that were identified during practice on Friday when we managed a fair few laps. They included Hugh Robinson solving the most serious problem by turning up (at 4.00am on the Saturday morning) an exquisite alloy generator blanking plate with an inset groove for a 10" O ring after the first rough one buckled and leaked oil onto the back wheel. We learnt that there is a tiny oil hole in the generator shaft that can produce enuf' oil to create a problem if the cover does not seal properly.

Then I lost the front on an oil patch right on the racing line on the high speed corner at the end of the straight. Luckily, as my knee hit the ground and my foot came off the peg it somehow popped the bike back up. Big shot of adrenalin. My co rider, ex Kwaka works rider (and fellow stroke survivor) Mark Lithgow who travelled up from Melbourne, was not so lucky and came down on the same patch on his Kawasaki bending it badly and coming back to the pits limping.

Next day (Saturday) while I was working on the CBX, they ran the club championship races & Mark cleaned up on the same bike after running repairs, winning the 750 Period 5 class (aircooled up to 1982) against all the local hot shots. Especially impressive against Harris 750 Yamahas when he was only on a GPZ550 (610) and had to start from the back of the grid because he forgot to get his transponder for qualifying and was therefore un-timed (I suspect this was a clever ruse to fool his competitors). Anyhow at the end of the day he had more points than them and had trouble getting off his bike and so, a trip to the medics was in order.

The diagnosis of a groin hernia from his prang the day b4 meant he was grounded and therefore we didn't make it to the grid for the main race on Sunday. As the weather turned sour I was not as disappointed as I might have been but we still have to get the motor properly tuned after all the work replacing the head. We can play with the advance curve a bit and the carbs need balancing. At this point the bored out CV's really show their budget status and I have to find a set of vacuum gauges. I'm told its a painfully slow process (some of you will know) but the current low rev fluffiness makes loading the bike onto the trailer walking it on the clutch a bit dicey even if it doesn't much affect the bike with the throttle pinned open. If you don't believe me just try walking a CBX up a 6" wide ramp in first with the revs above 6,000rpm.

This weekend is the Australian CBX Club's annual rally not far from where I live in the Hunter Valley. I'm not a member (I can't afford it) but I'm hoping one of the members has a set of vacuum gauges that I can purloin. I will be the suspicious looking guy lurking in the shadows in the long black coat. And so it goes....

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Mouse »

:text-goodpost:
Thx 4 the update Warwick. :-)
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steve murdoch icoa #5322
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by steve murdoch icoa #5322 »

That is one strong knee you have to lever one of these brutes back to upright. haha.
Great stories, Rick.
You are a doing the CBX community proud with your racing efforts.

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herdygerdy
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by herdygerdy »

Hi Warwick,

Thanks for the great story. PM me because I can help out with your carb synch. needs.

Keep up the great work.

Cheers...Tony

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Jeff Bennetts »

Thanks for taking the time to keep us updated Warwick, always look forward to them.

Warwick Biggs
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

It turned out the misfiring at low speed was a couple of blocked low speed jets. Probably the legacy of water in the carbs from dragging it around for thousands of klms in the rain and nothing to do with the ignition (I've gone back to the Dyna S for simplicity's sake) or the hole in the head.

Its now running sweetly altho' it took a ridiculously long time (over 2 hours) to get the carbs back on. I think I can say I tried every angle. Get 3 in then the last 3 and the first 3 pop out. If they are not in far enuf' when you try to tighten the hose clips, they all pop out, Grrr! Why aren't they tapered? Who is responsible for designing such a diabolically difficult set up? As for dropping the engine just to fit the carbs as the manual suggests, I can only say Ggrr2! The designer obviously didn't have racers in mind.

My surreptitious plan to do a Bonneville and fit a hidden PFI system is unlikely to come to anything altho' it would make a lot of sense when it comes to tuning.

The next meeting will be the Southern Classic at Broadford in early November. I cannot argue with 3 days of track time for $200.

Looks like the Donnington International Challenge invitation has been put off until 2018. That suits me fine because both rider and bike need more development time.

R.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Ringnalda »

We put racetech valves in sweepings and it made a world of difference.
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Re: CBX Racing

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Warwick Biggs wrote: Its now running sweetly altho' it took a ridiculously long time (over 2 hours) to get the carbs back on. I think I can say I tried every angle. Get 3 in then the last 3 and the first 3 pop out. If they are not in far enuf' when you try to tighten the hose clips, they all pop out, Grrr! Why aren't they tapered? Who is responsible for designing such a diabolically difficult set up? As for dropping the engine just to fit the carbs as the manual suggests, I can only say Ggrr2! The designer obviously didn't have racers in mind.
R.
you have pods don't you? the oem design was with an airbox behind prevents them from popping out, Mouse has the same complaints about his pod system, frustrating hours spent on install...with pods a 2nd set of hands would seem to be the answer....

with my oem airbox I just lift the engine back into place pinning the carbs between the two sets of greased rubbers, a gentle squeeze and they pop securely into place, it only takes a few minutes...
CBX a work in progress, still improving...GS1150EFE completed and awaiting modifications.....RD350, remnants in boxes scattered throughout the garage

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

Thanks guys. The valves in my front forks have been welded up and re-drilled by Trevor Manley with smaller oil holes to increase damping. Whether this replicates the race tech valves is a moot point but the front is now firm enuf' for racing. The rear Wilbers is still being developed. My longer term plan is to pay Georges Martin a visit in Nante and move to full width slicks altho' I have noted with interest the forum article on adapting cb600 F3 bits to 17" and extending the forks to scavenge extra clearance.

I am currently running the open carbs without the K&N's or the pods, simply because I wanted to be able to see how the slides and chokes are working. The stock carbs have been reamed out to match the porting and bigger valves but we have retained the chokes for easier starting. I thought about retaining the original airbox and adapting it to achieve a ram air effect but at the moment that space is occupied by the catch tank for the breather pipe that we have to run under our rules. I think in other jurisdictions a belly pan with a larger capacity is required and that may be an issue I need to re-visit in the future, if we go to Europe. I still don't relish having to drop such a heavy motor at the track (where garage space is often at a premium and facilities are limited) just to change jets. I'm inclined to machine the outer leading edges of the carbs' throats so that they slip in easier.

Does anybody have any racing experience with the straight line CR's? Roly reckons they are no easier to set up than the cranked CV's (that he thinks, give a smoother throttle response).

Image

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Re: CBX Racing

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Warwick Biggs wrote:Thanks guys. The valves in my front forks have been welded up and re-drilled by Trevor Manley with smaller oil holes to increase damping. Whether this replicates the race tech valves is a moot point but the front is now firm enuf' for racing.
This does not replicate what the emulators do, except on very smooth pavement. If the tracks where you're racing are nice and smooth (or if you can find lines around 'em where you avoid hard bumps while leaned over and/or on the brakes), then the change you've made will be good as it will reduce brake dive.

The emulators increase damping for so-called low frequency inputs like braking, and decreases the damping for high frequency inputs like hitting bumps or potholes. Smaller metering holes in a damping rod setup will increase the damping under all circumstances.

I have never raced but have spent some time on a variety of tracks on a variety of machines, and I found that I notice the value of high-spec suspension on the street more than on most tracks - because tracks generally are smoother than the city streets where I live, and you have fewer surprise obstacles at the track.

Even so, those RTCE's are pretty hard to beat in terms of value per dollar.
Phil in Toronto
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

I defer to the experts.

My personal experience on the track is that I have always made up a lot of ground when racing by late braking. A split second can easily translate to 6 bike lengths. To maintain control when braking really hard, on the limits of adhesion, the last thing I want is dramatic changes in weight distribution caused by diving telescopic forks. No matter what technology is employed (such as Suzuki's Big Piston Forks), there are a lot of compromises with such a design. Better rigid than pogo-ing.

In my experience the best mass market front suspension for the road is BMW's Duolever that isolates the braking from the suspension (Bimota's Tesi is another example). This is most noticeable on the road when braking down hill into a bumpy corner. My local authority has officially named such a corner near me "Lemming Corner" because so many bikes spear off it over a high cliff. The road was originally hewn out of the sandstone rock by convicts in the early 1800's. They put drainage channels across it at 45 degrees and no matter how often the road gangs fill them with tar, they eventually get pressed out into their basic form. When a typical sports bike comes hammering down the hill, the front forks are already pretty well fully compressed. They hit the drain and there is no suspension left. They take off through the armco and over the cliff. RIP. That does not happen with most BMW's.

The pic above illustrates Hugh's beautifully machined from billet generator cover plate. On the inner face he machined a groove that accommodates a 10" diameter 'O' ring. This secures the oil. Don't you like my carb covers? They are 3.25" Welsh plugs from the rear cam cover of a Ford Cleveland motor and they fit the standard CV's perfectly (thanks Dennis).

I removed the filters when I was trying to sort out the low speed running problems so that I could observe the slides and chokes. The problem was partly out of whack slides but more likely 2 blocked pilot jets, probably caused by residue from rain water draining off the tank, through the outer K&N's and into the carbs. Until I can afford a covered trailer I will retain the welsh plugs to prevent having to repeat all the hassles that caused. And they look ace when I unload the bike too. Of course the CBX draws a lot of attention so it may as well look like its ready to party even if we just go for a tootle. Speaking of which, the address of the race secretary of the Historic Motor Racing Club of Victoria (who are hosting the next meeting we will be contesting, the Southern Classic at Broadford) is Tootle Street. Seems very appropriate for old farts racing.

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Syscrush
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Re: CBX Racing

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Warwick Biggs wrote:They hit the drain and there is no suspension left. They take off through the armco and over the cliff. RIP. That does not happen with most BMW's.
And with a stiff damping rod fork, it can act like it's bottomed out long before it's used up all of the suspension travel.

A damping rod setup that's stiff enough to not have bad brake dive is fine as long as the pavement is smooth. A good cartridge setup will dive less under braking than a damping rod setup (but more than linkage type front ends like the duolever or Tesi), while allowing the suspension to still be compliant over sharp bumps or potholes.

If you're happy with your setup in the places where you ride, then enjoy it. :twocents-02cents:
Phil in Toronto
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

I guess the damping has to be a compromise, like telescopic forks themselves and you are correct to distinguish road riding from the demands of the track. Chalk and cheese really. I would appreciate seeing some pics of 'Sweepings'.

When it came to converting a CBX road bike suspension for racing I predominantly relied on Trevor Manley's advice and many years experience racing 'The Beast'. He is also a multiple Australian GP champion and raced professionally in Europe. Apparently he worked with Nicco Bakker modifying his GP frames at that time. His business is race bike suspensions so I think he and Roly have worked out the best settings by now. However, being something of a contrarian I have not yet taken his and Roly's advice to ditch the air caps because they give me an extra inch of ground clearance when pumped up. My understanding of the problem with the air caps is that the higher stresses of racing cause the air to mix with the fork oil producing cavitation with a resulting deterioration in damping.

So far I haven't noticed that problem. Either I'm not going fast enuf' or other problems are hiding it. Probably both.

I am also consciously trying to keep the bike recognizably looking like a stock CBX. I can't afford the 200hp hot rodding that the top bikes are running in any event, so I may as well make some sort of virtue out of my sow's ear budget. Once my times start improving I expect that to change a bit; the approach, not the budget.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by NobleHops »

Rick's latest pics...


Image


Image


Image
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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