CBX Racing

CBXs, new bikes, old bikes, cars, trucks, general chat, off topic, this is the place to post it.
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Warwick Biggs
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

Many people including some on this forum seem to think that the CBX is entirely unsuited to racing. I am old enuf' to have raced production superbikes of the era and by today's standards, none were suitable for racing. Even pukka racers like the OW31 would not pass muster today.

The Historic bikes are all highly modified for racing. A Molnar Manx or G50 is very different to the original, Ditto the Harris framed TRex Bol Dors, Irving Vincent, etc. Even the XR69 replicas are very different to the bikes developed by Pops Yoshimura. The big question is the number of $ it takes to make a competitive racer. The path chosen by the pros is to build a brand new replica. Think $50-100,000. Alternatively, you buy an old bike and convert it. Because it is an old bike it has all the issues of age that some of us are more familiar with than others. But the more you hot it up, the more $ it costs and the running costs are then exponential.

Enter the CBX; it doesn't need as much hotting up and is a very solid platform to work from. Its heavier, yes but not unreasonably so and it can be made to handle and brake much better than people expect for relatively little money with a fraction of the running costs of its more highly tuned competition. And particularly on the high speed circuits it shines.

Anybody who has ridden or even attended the IOM course will know it is a VERY high speed course. Each lap is about 60 kilometres or 40 miles through little villages, over stone bridges and under ancient oaks. The average speed in the CBX class is over 127mph and over the mountain from the Gooseneck to Craig Ny Baa it is all flowing sweepers. I have been there on a modern sport bike with my knee on the deck at 150mph and been passed like I was standing still by a rider on each side of me at the same time. I reckon this is the ideal circuit for the CBX, but as far as I am aware, nobody has ever competed at the IOM on a CBX. I would like to try.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by EMS »

There is a gentleman in England who was/is part of the CBX community and who has extensive experience in both the IOM and racing the CBX. His name is Geoff Smale. Maybe someone from our UK members can point you towards him.

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Re: CBX Racing

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Thanks EMS, I haven't come across him yet and am always keen to meet other CBX racers. I correspond with James Fisher who regularly races a CBX in the UK and Brian Goodall who used to race a CBX but thats' about it for Blightey. I don't know of anybody ever trying a CBX on the IOM.

The IOM Race committee is notoriously arbitrary in who they invite or allow out. They may accept a race entry and then refuse a start on a technicality and I know of racers with famous bikes who have travelled half way around the world at considerable expense to not get a start over some ostensibly minor issue. The officials seem more inclined to accept Irish riders because they race on public roads too. That was how Oz TT winner Cameron Donald managed his first start by competing in Northern Ireland for a season first. Its' not easy.

Of course the TT is very different to closed circuit racing. For a start, it is a time trial in theory and altho' there is still some dicing out on the course it is not the sort of close quarters racing you get on a short circuit. TT specialists like John McGuinness with 23 wins are not necessarily so crash hot in the cut and thrust of short circuit racing, either.

I was astonished at the speeds the riders manage when I first attended a TT but most of the circuit is flowing with a limited number of tight corners. You can be sitting outside the Sulby pub with a beer in hand and have bikes going past just a few metres away at over 200 mph - close enuf' to blow the head off your beer! Circuit knowledge is important because many of those flowing bends are blind and it doesn't really open out so that you can see well ahead until you get up onto the moors. So just knowing or remembering how to tackle the blind ones is crucial to a good lap time. Plus, you have to be extremely fit to manage over 280 klms or 160 miles at an average speed close to 130 mph. Over Speed Week (actually it is 2 weeks) a competitor may well clock up over 1,000 miles at these speeds. Just think about it.

And every year the morgue at Nobles Hospital fills up with mainly non racers trying their luck on speed unlimited public roads. The IOM is largely oblivious to the critics who say it is too dangerous and something should be done about it. Being a sovereign State it can give the Royal Salute to the Nanny State. Unfortunately, that also means they can arbitrarily discriminate, too.

The IOM is far and away the most challenging race track that I have ever ridden on as well as being very picturesque and having a strong mystique all of its own. It is simply the pinnacle of road racing. Those who have raced it are a fortunate few.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by EMS »

I probably should have made that more clear: Geoff did not race a CBX on the IOM.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Syscrush »

Warwick Biggs wrote:Circuit knowledge is important because many of those flowing bends are blind and it doesn't really open out so that you can see well ahead until you get up onto the moors. So just knowing or remembering how to tackle the blind ones is crucial to a good lap time.
One Man's Island is a documentary about an amateur racer who sold everything and dedicated a year of his life to his dream of doing a 100 mph lap at the IOM TT. He spent months on the island doing laps on a bicycle - stopping to do sketches and studies of the different turns, trying to commit the whole course to memory.

I find it a charming and fascinating portrait of calculated risk and obsession. I was at the world premiere - which was about 60 half-drunk dudes in a cafeteria on the Parry Sound Fairgrounds during the annual sportbike rally there. They weren't really what you'd call film aficionados. :lol: The room was filled with knowing laughter when he was talking about the allure and addiction of racing, though - and it went dead silent when it featured uninterrupted onboard footage.

I'd recommend it along with Road to anyone interested in road racing generally or the IOM specifically.
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Rick Pope »

I was lucky enough to spend a few days in the same house as Mark Gardiner, at Daytona bike week, just after he wrote that book. Interesting fellow. I have a signed copy somewhere.
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Re: CBX Racing

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I haven't seen those but the Guy Martin film Closer to the Edge, shot in 3D is graphic and entertaining.

My favourite film on road racing (that only features the IOM incidentally) is that fantastic Irish Arts Council production of 'The Road Racers' (Duke) that follows the fortunes of 3 riders all hailing from Armoy, including a very young and grubby Joey Dunlop. When I watch the slowmo of a push start of a gaggle of TZ's it is very emotional for me, bringing back as it does, many memories of another simpler time.

All 3 ultimately ended up losing their lives racing. And the Dunlops in particular seem to be making it a family trait that I imagine must bring considerable misery to the family. I don't see racing as a glamorous sport, at all. Its more of an irrational and dangerous addiction.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by EMS »

Most of the ICOA members still on the site, who attended the winter Meeting in Columbus a few years ago, may remember the IOM film Geoff Smale showed us at the AMA Museum. It was taken by a sidecar racer during a practice run and it was a hoot to watch. As the camera was mounted between the bike and the hack, there was no leaning, of course, but it still was exhilarating to go through all the turns from the rider pov.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

Well, I now have all the shiny new bits to repair the NC30 including new EBay clip ons and rear sets (Tyga from Thailand). I've also done a deal with Roly to swap my 6 into 6 and some other bits for a complete ignition including faux Honda coils/sender and Ignitech digital controller.

I still have reservations about this unit and would prefer the C5 but its the best I can do without shelling out more money. B4 I fit it I will do a compression and leak test to narrow down any mechanical issues. All my valve clearances are still very sloppy so I'm not expecting any surprises there but you never know... I will report back when I have a chance to get back into the workshop.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by EMS »

Check with Jim Zemanek from "Cincycycles". Google this, you will find several links. He may be able to steer you to a less expensive alternative for the ignition.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

That business in Cincinnati unfortunately looks like it is permanently closed, EMS.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Rick Pope »

Warwick Biggs wrote:That business in Cincinnati unfortunately looks like it is permanently closed, EMS.
Jim's still working on CBXs, but doesn't have a retail shop. He's "retired" again, and doesn't andswer his phone if he doesn't know who is calling.

You can send him an email at: bikes@fuse.net
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by EMS »

I thought he still had a facebook page???
And he was selling some stuff on ebay just recently.

Warwick Biggs
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

Thanks. I've sent an inquiry. In the meantime I've started to repair the 400 and discovered the cause of my sticky clutch. I think I failed to properly do up the lock nut on the lower adjuster after changing the countershaft sprocket. It had come right off and was resting on the cable. That would also explain why I had to keep adjusting it at the bars all thru' practice. This undoubtedly contributed to my crash because I was going gang busters trying to cut thru' the field to make up for a horror start caused by the sticking clutch.

If I'd been on the CBX I'd have spotted the problem but on a fully faired bike, out of sight is out of mind. I still don't like diaphragm spring clutches. They work OK in washing machines. Did anybody catch Mugello? It was a cracker!

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

I received a very polite reply from Jim Zemanek with some interesting info but unfortunately he was unable to help with an ignition system.

And on the issue of respect I have to say to GearheadGreg that as young a lawyer it was drilled into me that no matter how annoying, thick or downright stupid or bad the Judge might be, it was my responsibility not to bring the office into disrepute or risk crashing the system. So I can concur with him to the extent that the office has to be respected, particularly by Americans whose office it is.

That is not to say that, just like a faulty ignition system, it can't cause a lot of collateral damage and that we should not attempt to rectify the problem. And that is more double negatives than even Donald Rumsfeld, the master of the non sequitur, could manglish.

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