CBX Racing

CBXs, new bikes, old bikes, cars, trucks, general chat, off topic, this is the place to post it.
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cross
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by cross »

Warwick Biggs wrote:I defer to the experts.

My personal experience on the track is that I have always made up a lot of ground when racing by late braking. A split second can easily translate to 6 bike lengths. To maintain control when braking really hard, on the limits of adhesion, the last thing I want is dramatic changes in weight distribution caused by diving telescopic forks. No matter what technology is employed (such as Suzuki's Big Piston Forks), there are a lot of compromises with such a design. Better rigid than pogo-ing.

In my experience the best mass market front suspension for the road is BMW's Duolever that isolates the braking from the suspension (Bimota's Tesi is another example). This is most noticeable on the road when braking down hill into a bumpy corner. My local authority has officially named such a corner near me "Lemming Corner" because so many bikes spear off it over a high cliff. The road was originally hewn out of the sandstone rock by convicts in the early 1800's. They put drainage channels across it at 45 degrees and no matter how often the road gangs fill them with tar, they eventually get pressed out into their basic form. When a typical sports bike comes hammering down the hill, the front forks are already pretty well fully compressed. They hit the drain and there is no suspension left. They take off through the armco and over the cliff. RIP. That does not happen with most BMW's.

The pic above illustrates Hugh's beautifully machined from billet generator cover plate. On the inner face he machined a groove that accommodates a 10" diameter 'O' ring. This secures the oil. Don't you like my carb covers? They are 3.25" Welsh plugs from the rear cam cover of a Ford Cleveland motor and they fit the standard CV's perfectly (thanks Dennis).

I removed the filters when I was trying to sort out the low speed running problems so that I could observe the slides and chokes. The problem was partly out of whack slides but more likely 2 blocked pilot jets, probably caused by residue from rain water draining off the tank, through the outer K&N's and into the carbs. Until I can afford a covered trailer I will retain the welsh plugs to prevent having to repeat all the hassles that caused. And they look ace when I unload the bike too. Of course the CBX draws a lot of attention so it may as well look like its ready to party even if we just go for a tootle. Speaking of which, the address of the race secretary of the Historic Motor Racing Club of Victoria (who are hosting the next meeting we will be contesting, the Southern Classic at Broadford) is Tootle Street. Seems very appropriate for old farts racing.
Which pipes are you running?

Thanks
Sasha

'82 Honda CBX
'99 Triumph TBS
'01 Honda Valkyrie

:auto-sportbike:

Warwick Biggs
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

So, these pics are from the Southern Classic at Broadford, south of the border in scenic Victoria.

Altho' losing most of practice to electrical gremlins ( probably caused by a bad short in the stock 35 year old loom and exacerbated by a combination of poor lithium battery performance under load and the voltage demands of the Ignatech digital ignition) never adequately diagnosed. However, after changing everything on the ignition circuit we managed to complete all races. Weird that it only played up in practice when the day b4 we had done around 20 dyno runs without a hiccup (improving the top end by 5 hp but the monster mid range by 6-10 by playing with the Ignitech - the big valve head with a fixed rotor liked a sharp curve to 49 degrees by 6,000rpm, pulled back a degree or 2 for safety - dramatic numbers, eh?).

Broadford is a real rider's track with changes in elevation and set in a natural amphitheatre, it encourages aggressive riding. Especially amongst my competitors with Chas Hern on a 180 hp race replica (no. 2 in the 3rd pic) managing to lap me in a 5 lap race. Oh well, my bike is a real 35 year old roadster and I'm just a retired lawyer out for a fang. Chas, a pro racer, went on to take out the Australian Championship for period bikes up to 1982 at Symmons Plains in Tasmania a few weeks later. Pardon me for demurring but since when did bikes in 1982 have slipper clutches, power shifters and unobtainium internals? What is that expression about a bad workman blaming his tools. Who? Me?

No, no, no, and I did have a good dice and stayed with the pack by the final race (having never ridden there it took till then to start to learn the lines) but I would like to be able to run full width slicks. If I had a lazy 4,000 Euros I would get Georges Martin to build me a CrMo frame to take 17's b4 he finally hangs up his TIG welder. I dream of it. I do. Oh well, we soldier on with what we have.

I shared my garage and lodgings with Mark Lithgow, another racer from the 70's reprising his lost youth. Mark was a factory Kawasaki superbike rider a few years after I retired and has not lost his edge. If I had a frustrating week end, his was far worse. In every race he contested he was leading by a country mile when, after exactly 3.5 laps his bike would lose power. Many knowledgable heads and much candle burning never did fix that problem.

So now I need to strip out the road bike loom and re-wire the bike. A $20 MX fast action throttle went into the Honda switch block as soon as I got back to the workshop with some graphite to get it to stop jamming open so I don't have to wind and wind again to get moving down the straight. Compression is down so that needs investigation. Disappointing after a new head and valves but we will see. And so it goes.

One final whinge about the design - so much is crammed into the CBX that you have to do 6 jobs just to do 1. Perseverance seems to be the name of the game.

Time to hit the hay and dream of Georges and his magic torch....

R.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

Hi Sasha,

I'm running the American power commander stainless pipes, or some such similar name. All show and no go I'm afraid (is it a metaphor for US politics?). They are heavy, a pain to get on and off and the concensus between both RPE and Roly Skate is they are strangling the top end and not allowing the big valve head to run much beyond 8,000rpm altho the mid range is excellent and thats really more important on the track.

R.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by steve murdoch icoa #5322 »

Thanks for the report, Rick.
The fact you can barely mention a sticking open throttle shows your mettle. Great stuff!
Dream on, Brother.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Syscrush »

NobleHops wrote:Rick's latest pics...
I've said it before, I'll say it again - those wheels! :D

The bike looks great, thanks for the continued updates.

If you're not happy with the exhaust, do you plan to change it?
Phil in Toronto
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Pics of Perry, my '79.

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cross
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by cross »

Warwick Biggs wrote:Hi Sasha,

I'm running the American power commander stainless pipes, or some such similar name. All show and no go I'm afraid (is it a metaphor for US politics?). They are heavy, a pain to get on and off and the concensus between both RPE and Roly Skate is they are strangling the top end and not allowing the big valve head to run much beyond 8,000rpm altho the mid range is excellent and thats really more important on the track.

R.

Your metaphor is right on spot! ;)
Pipes look very good though
Thanks
Sasha
Sasha

'82 Honda CBX
'99 Triumph TBS
'01 Honda Valkyrie

:auto-sportbike:

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

If somebody wants to swap a good 6 into one for my 6 into 6 I'm happy to give it a go. The wheels came out of a farm shed full of bike bits and were off a couple of Bol Dor 1100F's. Pity the colour doesn't match.

By the way, if anybody is interested I have a shed full of 82' CBX pro link bits including straight original 18"/19" comstars fitted with Avon racing tyres (one race and barely scrubbed in).

I'm currently fitting a set of UK machinist Colin Marley's solid billet crank end caps (AUD$150) to replace the daggy alloy armour plates I had covering the original Honda units. As they match the original Honda items in the screw holes I'm having to re-drill a set of shorter stainless allen screws for the mandatory lock wiring because the screws we made up for the plating were too long to re-use. Even with my trusty old drill press this is a fiddly and time consuming task requiring a lot of 'feel' to avoid snapping very fine drill bits. I saw Roly's somewhat used Marley end caps after Trevor flipped the Beast at the World Supers at the Island. They were scarred but still serviceable, so they are strong.

So far I've only compression tested the outer cylinders (I have to drop the motor to do the rest). One showed 75psi and the other 50 psi. The original Honda compression should be around 175psi. Hard to say what it should be with the big valves and cams I have in it now but it should be more than that. With a squirt of oil into the combustion chamber the pressure immediately came up to 100psi suggesting it may be time for a rebore rather than a bent or burnt valve (all new anyway). I've been quoted around AUD$8,000 for an RPE 1300 re-sleeve kit by Hugh Robinson (with Carillo rods). That should boost power to around 130 rear wheel hp but I can't afford that either. I would prefer the Cr Mo frame and slicks. So long as the pistons aren't audibly slapping I'll just keep running it as it is.

Come to think of it, I can't afford to be doing what I'm doing. My partner and many of my friends think I'm crazy. They could have a point.

R.

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Re: CBX Racing

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Warwick Biggs wrote: My partner and many of my friends think I'm crazy. They could have a point.
R.
Crazy? Not a chance!
Your "crazy" only when you get no observable benefit from an activity but you keep doing it anyway.
Besides, if your "crazy " then the rest of us must be lunatics because we are enjoying your updates and cheering you on. :dance:
Canadian Amateur Radio Call sign VE6 VES

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

I lied! Its all a mistake. Well, not quite all. The pipes I think come from Pipemasters here in Oz. I blamed the Yanks. Sorry for that. Google them. They still make the 6 into 6 and they sponsor Roly Skate who uses a race version. They export. Its good for our balance of payments that is (like everywhere else) run by China. Bill at TIMS uses his own 6 into 1 on his racebike.

I have worked out that total loss ignition, 30K volt Dyna coils and Lithium starter batteries do not make for a comfortable mix. Development of battery technology is interesting but still in the early days. Lithiums are fine if you can maintain a stable voltage with a reliable alternator but fragile and start collapsing when they get down around 12 volts. And its eventually a terminal dead finish collapse, too. Beware.

R.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Warwick Biggs »

Contrary to popular opinion in this forum I desperately want to get rid of those skinny arse wheels that everybody sees to like. What can you do with 2" wheels? Go ice skating?

I've read CBXtacy's article on converting to 17''s, talked to Bill Brint about his frame mods (granite slab & lasers), Roly Skate about the Tom Marquardt mods and lots of people about the specialty one off builders like Georges Martin's variations on a theme. not to mention our Dutch friends and the Nicco Baker options. None led anywhere useful. Is there anything else Ian? Egli Elf CBX's?

Can there be a more diabolically difficult bike to take racing?

I just want to have the same rubber as everybody else. Without having to run it through the JET Propulsion Laboratories and NASA. Is that so much to ask? So I have some crude old racer's ideas of my own that I won't divulge until I work out whether there is indeed 'Another Way'.

R.
PS my erstwhile partner, Mark Lithgow came a consistent 3rd in the SA Historic Titles at Macnamara Park on his 'little' 550 Kawasaki in the unlimited class, beating some famous internationals on far more sophisticated machines. I will be racing him at Wakefield Park on 5 February and that should be a laugh. I might get a 'tow'.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by Syscrush »

I look forward to seeing what you come up with for wheels!

Are the tires a limiting factor for you now, or is this a matter of confidence?
Phil in Toronto
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Pics of Perry, my '79.

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by CopperCollar »

Image
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by steve murdoch icoa #5322 »

Hi Mike.
Nice to see you are still visiting the site.
Don't tell me you have moved on to ELRs?

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Re: CBX Racing

Post by CopperCollar »

Slowly making a come back. I visit once in a great while.
Maybe more often in the months to come. I am finally tackling that 80 engine. It was thoroughly abused and I should just find a good replacement but....it's original to the bike so I feel compelled to rebuild it.

Mike
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Re: CBX Racing

Post by NobleHops »

CopperCollar wrote:
I should just find a good replacement but....it's original to the bike so I feel compelled to rebuild it.

Mike
Let me muster a surprised face. Hang on a sec...


...



Nope, can't do it! Also very happy to see you visit Mike!

N.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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