Seized Brakes

[EMS]

Hi Larry..........no need to ask Dave on Ford.....never heard of any other cage maker using DOT 5...... prolly hurt parts sales if they did. Gotta love those bean counters.

Thanks.......Mike

It is plain amazing how someone, who desperately needs to drive a point home (I use the expression again - I don't think anybody can argue what's going on here) decides to deliberately ignore the fact that there are distinct disadvantages to something he is proposing. Everything you read and hear about the fluid is, that people accept the features, but make a clear point that use should be limited to seldom used vehicles where braking performance is not an issue. When all fails, he blames it on the bean counters

[Mike Cecchini]

Yeah.........we know the feeling Mike. Nobody here is arguing anything...... just you. The rest of us are discussing the pro's and con's of DOT 5 and even when you are presented with Corvette owners that really like what DOT 5 has done for them, you still side-step and evade the simplicity of such a wonderful product that keeps our X's on the road with such ease.

In case you hadn't noticed CBX's aren't about braking performance or anything performance really, they are just great street bikes with wonderful gear-head motors, so the "distinct disadvantage" you so proudly hang your hat on is such a joke. Installed in most of my Ducati's, one and two finger stoppies still done easily......and even my 80X works so well that I'm not even installing the late model brakes I bought for it. DOT 5 rocks.

Also, in case you hadn't noticed, it's the bean counters that (sadly) rule this society.......but I guess that's another thread.

Bye for now.

[EMS]

Mike - let me get very personal about this. You are the only one who is NOT discussing. You are hammering your point and you are beating a dead horse. You are the one who does not accept anyone else's position on this. You are "educating the masses" (only a pompous jackass could say that about himself) and you fall just a bit short of calling everybody who does not agree to your points an idiot.
What is your point with Corvettes? I think it is perfectly clear that those Corvettes that are driven regularly on the road in a spirited manner DO NOT use DOT5. Only those which are hauled to car shows and not started, because the engine compartment may get dirty, like any other collector car, are. I own a Corvette, I am member of two Corvette clubs and I don't know anybody who uses DOT5 in his or her Corvette. And while you personally may find the braking performance of your Ducatis satisfactory, a serious rider may not want to take one of them over 80 mph. I own 3 Ducatis too and even my 750GT will not get DOT5, because it is occasionally ridden hard and I rely on the brakes to slow me down efficiently. Let's just say this: Some of us like a responsive feel on the brake. They maintain their vehicles, including regular service of the brake fluid. They don't like DOT5 for its shortcomings. You have to live with this and end your missionary efforts. Gosh, one would think you get paid for each pint of DOT5 that is being sold.

[Rick Pope]

It takes less time to flush several CBX brake systems than it does to read this thread...........

[Mike Cecchini]

Mike - let me get very personal about this. You are the only one who is NOT discussing.
You are hammering your point and you are beating a dead horse. <snip>

What is your point with Corvettes?

And while you personally may find the braking performance of your Ducatis satisfactory, a serious
rider may not want to take one of them over 80 mph. I own 3 Ducatis too and even my 750GT will not
get DOT5, because it is occasionally ridden hard and I rely on the brakes to slow me down
efficiently. Let's just say this: Some of us like a responsive feel on the brake. They maintain
their vehicles, including regular service of the brake fluid. They don't like DOT5 for its
shortcomings. You have to live with this and end your missionary efforts. Gosh, one would think you
get paid for each pint of DOT5 that is being sold.

I've got a great idea for you Mike..... let's NOT "get very personal about this". Like Brewer told you, take it
somewhere else please.

A. This isn't about you and me.......it's about how good DOT 5 Silicone brake fluid is for our
CBX's.

B. Nils has asked us not to get personal and I'll respect his wishes.

What this is about...... is one of two products on the market that have been a God-send to us CBX owners.

#1. Stabil.........that keeps our street gas from gumming up our X's between rides as they sit for
weeks and months at a time while we ride our other bikes.

#2. DOT 5 Silicon brake fluid........that does not corrode our brake systems as they sit for
weeks, months and years.......as we ride our other bikes.

Number 1 everyone knows about........but number 2 not so many, so yes, I will champion DOT 5
every chance I get so others can reap the benefits I and other CBX owners have gotten from DOT 5.
It's a wonderful product Mike........regardless of all the false road-blocks and racing deviation
topics you throw in the path of this great product.

As far as DOT 5 being used in many of my Ducati's, they get ridden regularly on the street and track
events at 120+ mph and one at 160+ mph (VIR) with DOT 5 and the brakes are wonderful. It would be
very interesting to have you come to one of our Ducati track events at Grattan, Mosport or VIR where
many of us use DOT 5 in our track bikes with wonderful results. I'd like to see you run with some
of our "serious" riders.

Oh......almost forgot.......the point about my using the Corvette link was because we were
discussing DOT 5 being used in Corvettes......remember ? So, while I was doing some research on
DOT 5 in Corvettes I came across a bunch of Corvette owners that really liked DOT 5. They liked
how their brakes felt, how its non-corrosive and how friendly it is when spilled on paint and
plastic bits.

Also, they were so happy about 15--20 yrs after installing DOT 5 they opened up their brake systems,
especially (low point in the brake system) calipers that are suppose to show any evidence of
water.......but lo and behold....surprise surprise..... not a single issue of corrosion or water.
I guess you didn't see it ......so here it is again.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-and-m-use.html

Have a nice day buddy............ Mike

[EMS]

You are a seriously dangerous person, Mike. With your twisting and distorting of facts, you remind me of Joseph Goebbels.

. Like Brewer told you, take it
somewhere else please.

A Have a nice day buddy............ Mike

Bob Brewer never told me anything. I would still have to get the first personal communication from him. I have no idea where you got that from. The "headmaster of the list" I was referring to was no other than you.

[George R. Garrison #0857]

Thread Hijack:

Or, Thread expansion?

EMS, Mike or anyone else!

There's a mention of Stabil on here and I too thought it was good. But everything I read about Startron by Starbrite says it is better.

Are there any thoughts regarding staying with the first or going to the second?

And, was there ever a DOT 1 brake fluid?

Later, George in Delaware

[Mike Cecchini]

Thread Hijack:

Or, Thread expansion?

EMS, Mike or anyone else!

There's a mention of Stabil on here and I too thought it was good. But everything I read about Startron by Starbrite says it is better.

Are there any thoughts regarding staying with the first or going to the second?

And, was there ever a DOT 1 brake fluid?

Later, George in Delaware

Hi George,

I have no experience with Starton because the track gas (with lead) that I use for my bikes that don't get ridden in 2--3 months works for nearly 5 yrs. Also, Stabil is available all around me, so I don't search (or need) anything else should I need something like Stabil.

Btw..... if you are dis-satisfied with regular Stabil, as I've heard reports that it doesn't work as long as it use to and today's ethanol street gas goes bad much sooner than it use to.........there is a Marine Grade of Stabil that's suppose to last much longer.

DOT 1 ?? DamifIknow...... waaaaaaaay before my time. Maybe Rick Pope can help.....or Google.

My best......... Mike

[George R. Garrison #0857]

Thanks Mike,

I don't have track gas available, I use 100 low lead aviation fuel when I can get it.

But, with this water laced fuel I'm always on the look out for something better. I stopped using Stabil red and went to marine blue a while back. I also heard that the original stabil was watered down.

But I started to look at Startron by Starbrite for Diesel tanks in my boat, the boat holds a lot of fuel and does not go out too often. The reading I did, I discovered Startron. If you wish to read up on it, you may not be impressed. But, I was. And, it seems to be hard to find, but Walmart has it in the marine area of your store. They don't offer it in the auto section with the other fuel stabilizers. I don't know why, but thats what I've found. I also found it in a local Honda dealership.

I try to keep all my bikes in use but with the possibility of the country going to 15% in our fuel, I'm always on the watch for a better product.

The Dot 1 thing was a joke, they probably used some sort of castrol based fluid then. I had a 1946 airplane that used a green castrol based fluid in the brake system and boy did it get stcky and gooey over time.

Anyway, so much for trivia.

Since both of my 81 CBX's have sit for years, I may try Dot 5 after and if the present parts prove to be unusable. It's been 30 some odd years since my X was new and I'm sure there's a lot of gel in those calipers. We will see. I try to keep and open mind and enjoy reading the forum.

I read every post on this site and I thinks great asset.

Thanks, George

[EMS]

Thread Hijack:

Or, Thread expansion?

EMS, Mike or anyone else!

There's a mention of Stabil on here and I too thought it was good. But everything I read about Startron by Starbrite says it is better.

Are there any thoughts regarding staying with the first or going to the second?

And, was there ever a DOT 1 brake fluid?

Later, George in Delaware

I have no experience with Startron either, George, but I know a lot of people who have switched to the green Stabil (marine grade).
Have never heard of DOT 1, but DOT 2 was used with drum brakes and was basically phased out when they became less and less popular and were "banned" to the rear wheels of vehicles. I still own a drum brake vehicle and the original owners manual refers to DOT 2 brake fluid, although I have been using DOT4 in it since 1994, when I first got it.

[Mike Cecchini]

100 oct leaded gas is perfect George.

I assume the "water laced" fuel you speak of is your street gas with ethanol...... it shouldn't really have any water in it. Maybe miniscule amounts......but damn little. Good to hear you are aware of Marine Stabil.

Diesel boats eh ? Whole 'nother world there. I heard joke one time..... "a boat is a hole in the water you pour money into".

Yeah...... I hear the corn lobby and other grubbers are pushing for bigger percentages of ethanol in our gas. There's a lot of people already pissed-off about the 5--10% levels now and the damages it's doing to so many engines and fuel systems. But hey.......why should the corn lobby worry about that ? This is AMERICA.......where profits are KING......right ?

Check these out.....
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 75,00.html

http://www.energyadvocate.com/etohscam.htm

http://www.energytribune.com/articles.c ... hanol-Scam

As for the DOT 5....... most times all it takes is a good house-cleaning to get things ready, so take your time and it'll be the last time you ever have to do it. Any problems or issues just email me directly mrc.engr@verizon.net I just did three X's....... 9 calipers and 6 master cylinders.

Keep your mind open. It's your greatest asset.
Question everything........especially authority.

My best...........Mike

[Larry Zimmer]

Tires: Nitrogen or Air? This DOT 5 thing is getting boring!

[Mike Cecchini]

Here ya go Larry.
78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide.
Aproximations of course........

The facts are......
http://www.satmods.com/automotive-talk/ ... -scam.html

[Don]

Mike - let me get very personal about this. You are the only one who is NOT discussing. You are hammering your point and you are beating a dead horse. You are the one who does not accept anyone else's position on this. You are "educating the masses" (only a pompous jackass could say that about himself) and you fall just a bit short of calling everybody who does not agree to your points an idiot.

Mike C is quite the master of anecdotal evidence. (Look it up)

Since everything he says flies in the face of all scientific evidence, about all he can do is say it loud and say it often enough that (he thinks) someone might believe him - There *are* a few uninformed folks out there . . . perhaps a few of them actually will. History has proven time after time that people who spout falsehoods day after day for years on end are sometimes mistaken by a few as knowing what they are talking about and occasionally believed by the uneductated . . . . so Mike is 'educating them' . . . . doing them a favor you could say . . . . not!

Because his grandfather drank a fifth of booze and smoked 3 packs of cigarettes every day of life and was in perfect health at age 100 when a tree fell on him and killed him, Mike would have us all believe that everyone should smoke and drink to excess - After all, his grandfather proved that both are good for you (He drank DOT 5 every day too, which proves it is good for you as well . . . . but he never used that crap in his truck because he liked a firm pedal) ;)

What the originator of this ancient, long dead thread that Mike dredged up just so he could 'educate' us all one more time failed to mention was that the bike in question already had DOT 5 in it . . . . and that the pure, undiluted water in there under that DOT 5 is what rusted his calipers in the first place - No chance that he's gonna go back to that stuff, so Mike truly is 'beating a (long) Dead Horse!

Go on Mike - Tell us all yet again, one more time . . . . there might be one more person out there who hasn't heard you as of yet . . . . and who knows, he just might be a big fan of mushy brakes!

In Mike's defense, I should tell everyone that when you meet him in person at a rally and shake his hand, he's a really nice guy - Nothing at all like his posts here and elsewhere in cyberspace would make you believe . . . . he just does this here (and on the Brewer List) to get attention - We 'make his day'

Have a good one Mike,

Don

[Mike Cecchini]

You can lead a horse to water..........