High Speed Weave Survey

Postby new shorty » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:58 pm

alimey4u2 wrote:snip/ Joost
Size/info Joost ? size does matter... :wink:


Ye're gonna kill me if you keep doing this Larry: the bike is in the far end of the shed right now, and I had to crawl to get to read the figures on the front tyre. I'm an old-timer too now :P

Well here are the sizes that matter:

Front: 100/90-19 57V
Rear: 130/80-18 66V

I hope you're happy now :wink:
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Postby cbxtacy » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:26 pm

Yep, all the rest weaved/wobbled. And I've weaved/wobbled with just about every tire available. The smaller/lighter the tire-the less prone to weave/wobble. Also the less ground clearance there is. Not critical unless you go around turns occasionally dragging the pegs/stands.
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Postby alimey4u2 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:00 am

new shorty wrote:
alimey4u2 wrote:snip/ Joost
Size/info Joost ? size does matter... :wink:


Ye're gonna kill me if you keep doing this Larry: the bike is in the far end of the shed right now, and I had to crawl to get to read the figures on the front tyre. I'm an old-timer too now :P

Well here are the sizes that matter:

Front: 100/90-19 57V
Rear: 130/80-18 66V

I hope you're happy now :wink:


Thanks for the extra effort Joost... :lol:
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Postby Don #6141 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:42 am

new shorty wrote:Bridgestone Battlax BT45 here,

No wobbles

Same here . . . . but then my first '79 also had no sign of a wobble with Dunlops on it . . . . so maybe what George says is true - Tires don't have much to do with whether or not your bike wobbles since all of his bikes wobble no matter what tire he uses while other owners have never had a wobble no matter what tire they use . . . . we may be barking up the wrong tree looking at tires

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Postby cbxtacy » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:56 am

and there is a difference between wobble and weave. The CBX wobble sets in around 55 mph. You won't even feel it unless you take both hands off the bars around 55. Also known as a tank slapper. Doesn't seem to do it below or above there. The weave is apparent when going around a fast sweeper leaned over pretty good. No wobble but the bike wanders a bit. Sometimes changing the weight on the pegs gives a better feeling of stability then.
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Postby EMS » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:09 pm

A "wobble" may be caused by an out-of-alignment steering neck bearing or some other fork issues, like uneven damping.
The "weave" is usually the result of inferior chassis stiffness and "pumping" in curves.
As we are talking "high-speed" weave, the question is, if the problem occurs during normal riding in the U.S.
I remember the early CBX became really nasty at speeds of 150-160km/h, which is around 100mph. Not necessarily a common velocity for highway travel in the U.S.
I know for a fact, that I haven't been that fast on my 1979 since 1988.
My 81 Prolink doesn't weave. Even two-up, it sits pretty solid.
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Postby Terry » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:13 pm

You know, I don't have those problems so I think you all must have defective bikes. Maybe Honda's liberal warranty program would be willing to help out..... :lol:
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Postby Mike Barone #123 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:23 pm

This is a copy of a reply to another post .......I brought over to this thread just incase someone reads this thread and did not see the other post.


Background: A Path To An Early Model Not Wobbling On Straights or in any turns/sweepers
Below is the chronological progression and results to finally making the Ole Dawgie handle with econo changes and finally.... no wobbles on straights or any turns. Keep in mind back then there was no internet proven turn key solutions to make a CBX handle ...not wobble...just an ole guy and ole bike trying to work all this out without spending alot of money and still ending up with a bike that looked like a CBX.

Dawige Handling History.....Timeframe: 1980 to 1990 or so
1. Adjusted air in forks at 1lb pressure increments. Still wobbled

2. Different weight fork oil starting at 5wt....in 2.5wt increments ....to 15wt. Still wobbled and brutal ride with heavier weight fork oil combinations.

3. Installed a steering damper. Still wobbled

4. Installed a fork brace. Still wobbled

5. Replace rear shocks with Koni adjustables. 15% better handling...still wobbled.

6. Watermellon on the gas tank at speed. No wobbles

7. Oversized front tire. Less wobbling......but it chewed 3" or so off the front fender tip at speed

8. Latest sport tires (12 sets or prior to item 10). Still wobbled

9. Gusset steering head, reinforced frame backbone, braced stock swing arm. Still wobbled

10. Complete 1100f 39mm front and 1100f back. No wobbles.
Note: Long ago an article in the Xpress stated that 35mm CBX tubes flexed 55% more than 39mm. Massive clue in my view.

Long trip....trial and error over ten plus years, but I finally got to the promised land an no weaving or wobbles at any speed or in the twisties.

2009 Update
For early models my recommendation now is to replace the current 35mm early model fork tubes with a late model forks and Race Tech Gold Valves....go from there. Use everything else you have on the front now.

I used to recommend 1100f full front because they were 39mm with all the adjustablity and they had anti-dive that really worked and had great success with this myself for 15 years or so. Howver a 39mm fork late forks with the Race Tech Gold Valve on the Dawgie installed this year is far superior to the 1100f front and is more compliant, less nose dive, less expensive, no technical or fitment issues and finally weighs less........plus the Gold Valve is adjustable.

Now you do just this you still end up with your single piston early model calipers and stock rotors, but getting better calipers on the front is a future step....and doing the 39mm and Gold Valve fix now will ensure you live long enough to actually start being worried about better front calipers to be added to this truly superior front fork setup.

Summary
Item 10 above was the only thing that resulted no wobbles, but this plus items 8 & 9....and finally the all important Race Tech Gold Valves yielded absolutely the best handling the Dawgie has ever had. 30 years of experimentation and econo parts....but I think it is done now....and the bike still looks like a CBX....and yes...it was well worth the wait.

At your option, you can proceed right to "Go" if you want ...come on out and ride the Ole Dawgie or ride it at a rally and see if this is what you are looking for in handling and absolutely no wobbles.


Mike
Last edited by Mike Barone #123 on Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: High Speed Weave Survey

Postby bdento59 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:26 pm

alimey4u2 wrote:Could you tell us whether your bike suffers for a high speed weave or not ? Naked or Prolink ? Tires/Tyres fitted giving full tire information ? After a while I'll tabulate the results, I think you'll find them quite interesting... :wink:
Weave - yes, 1980 model, Givi A755 screen, Bridgestone S11, 120/90-18R, 100/90-19F, 40/34 psi R/F, stock wheels, 35mm forks w/ 10 psi air, fork brace, cb1100F rear shocks
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Postby alimey4u2 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:36 pm

Good stuff Bill thanks... :wink:
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Postby bdento59 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:49 pm

EMS wrote:As we are talking "high-speed" weave, the question is, if the problem occurs during normal riding in the U.S.
I remember the early CBX became really nasty at speeds of 150-160km/h, which is around 100mph.
In answer to your first question, "yes" it can occur during normal riding in the USA. Commenting on your second statement or recollection, it happens at much lower speeds when cranked over as I was the other day, perhaps as slow as 130kph (~80mph). I was playing nip and tuck with a modern 0.6 litre sportbike on the freeway. When we came to a high speed LH uphill sweeper, he leaned it over, cranked on it and blew by, whereas when I leaned it over and tried to roll on from 130 kph, it started to weave to the point where I had to back off to keep it in my lane. Plainly stated, that sucked.
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Postby Don #6141 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:29 pm

I think when you get your 39 mm forks installed, you're going to be really pleased with the change . . . . even if you're not really surprised

It's amazing the '79's and '80's worked as well as they did, given the 35 mm forks and the flimsy swing arm and poor rear shocks - Finding any other stock 100 HP, 600 pound motorcycle with forks so small would probably be impossible. Most would be larger than 39 mm I suspect

The transformation between the stock setup and one with the 1100F rear end and the ProLink front end just has to be ridden to be believed - Besides the much more stable handling, you'll then have a platform you can install some real BRAKES on

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Postby Mike Barone #123 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:15 pm

bdento59 wrote:
EMS wrote:As we are talking "high-speed" weave, the question is, if the problem occurs during normal riding in the U.S.
I remember the early CBX became really nasty at speeds of 150-160km/h, which is around 100mph.
In answer to your first question, "yes" it can occur during normal riding in the USA. Commenting on your second statement or recollection, it happens at much lower speeds when cranked over as I was the other day, perhaps as slow as 130kph (~80mph). I was playing nip and tuck with a modern 0.6 litre sportbike on the freeway. When we came to a high speed LH uphill sweeper, he leaned it over, cranked on it and blew by, whereas when I leaned it over and tried to roll on from 130 kph, it started to weave to the point where I had to back off to keep it in my lane. Plainly stated, that sucked.


Please add this to the study.....

I can say the wobbles I experienced before the 1100f front and back installation were not restricted to just straights at over say 85mph -or- in high/moderate speed sweepers that might or might not have had an undulation or two.

On a sport ride in the mid/late 1980s, that was held at last years years Luray Rally Site, I was going up Rt250 on the 3 mile or so twisties to the Blue Ridge following Dale Rush who had a near new BMW four (Blue and White...beautiful bike) .....anddddddddd .......the ole Dawgie actually wobbled .....going up hill .....in one or two of those twisties.....and there were no undulations in the road.
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Postby Will » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:40 pm

I thought the wobble was part and parcel of my '82. Until one of Mike Tuman's friends down in Florida told me, "Get rid of those Dunlops, get Bridgestones." I never looked back.
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