Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n


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NobleHops
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Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by NobleHops »

My name is Nils and I have a tool problem.

(Those of you Old Timers that know all this can skip the preamble and get straight to the tool pr0n below)

These older Hondas use a funky screw-in bearing retainer system, with a big fat seal tucked in the back side. The spacers sit within the bore of the seal, and it does a decent job of keeping mung out and things together, but they are a PITA to remove sometimes. Once they are screwed in, Honda 'stakes' them, laying a pin punch right in the joint where the threads are and intentionally munging the threads into each other to prevent them backing out. Removal calls for drilling out the staked spot with a 1/8 drill bit, then putting a special tool that is sized for that particular bearing retainer, and then backing them out. They are soft and prone to damage, aluminum I think. There are two of them on this bike, different sizes, and they look like this:

Image

A while back I bought this set, and it kicks ass:

Image

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And for $55 you can get it from Amazon, free shipping with Prime:

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-6613-Variable-Spanner-Wrench/dp/B000F5JMEA

You select the right pins that fit the holes in the retainer, screw them in to the arms of the wrench, put it on your freshly drilled bearing retainer, and back them out with zero fuss or drama.

Image

Image
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Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

http://www.restocycle.com Ikon shocks for your CBX! https://www.ikonshocksusa.com/collectio ... 1000-79-80

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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Good 'stuff' on that tool, Nils. Thanks. And, yes, that's the way to remove the retainer. One could try to just 'muscle' it past the stakes. Risk bunging the drive-holes, though. Better to do as you suggest with the drill. Won't hurt anything. The retainer is likely just a soft steel. That staking approach is somewhat common automotive practice. Quicker, and less messy than loctite, etc. When reassembling, I'd just go with clean threads and a bit of blue thread-locker.
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shiskowd
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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by shiskowd »

CBX wheel noob here - reviving an old thread...

Before I read Nils' thread and cleaned up the grim enough to realize the retainers were staked, I applied sufficient force to freeze the brake side bearing retainer solid :x . I can't move it with any size wrench or impact wrench. Before I resort to cutting them off with a rotary tool, does anyone have any suggestions for removing these? I can move it back and forth about 1/4 turn and can't get it back to the staked position to try to drill them out. Appears Honda still stocks all the bearing retainers needed for the wheels if I go the destructive route. They're likely ruined regardless.

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2010 KTM 690 Enduro Rally, 1979 CBX 'A' & 'B', 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T
Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by sixofsix »

There are a number of CBX bearing retainer removal tools for sale on ebay. You could stop and wait for the proper tool. Drill bits of exact size in holes and a square shank long screwdriver across them will work. Better yet a piece of flat bar with a couple holes drilled to suit the size and location of the drill bits in the retainer works even better. If you have buggered the holes in the retainer you can drill them out to start fresh. Then you need to worry it out, back and fro using oil to lube the threads. Good luck!

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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by shiskowd »

I forgot to add that I have the proper 4 pin adapter to remove the retainer (it's in the picture). The adapter is well constructed and still can't spin it with a pneumatic impart wrench. I may resort to cutting it off. I can't see how heat can help as both pieces are aluminum and will expand quickly together.
2010 KTM 690 Enduro Rally, 1979 CBX 'A' & 'B', 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T
Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by sixofsix »

Hmmm. You are in trouble. Is it possible someone has been in there before? If so, they may have used red locktite which can only removed with heat. If it won't budge at all, it means the threads have welded together so to speak. If you use heat, one feller runs the torch and one feller runs the impact. As soon as it starts to move, try forward/reverse quickly on the impact while still applying heat. If that does not work, out comes the carbide burr to grind out to minor diameter of the thread to reduce the hoop strength of the retainer. I'd say you are going to have galled threads so good luck finding a tap of that size. Either way, it ain't gonna be pretty as all the filings will be in everything. You are in for some work and new swear words...ha!

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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by NobleHops »

You are probabaly "fooked" as they say at this point. The retainer is soft and when you manhandled it without drilling it first you started piling up swarf in the threads. If you gorrilla it out from here, even if you drill the stakes properly, you'll likely have thread damage. Ask me how I know this if you like. Sometimes this goes wrong in this manner even when you do it properly, and I can't say why - possibly a prior aborted attempt, who knows.

Bite the bullet and get it machined out at this point, tidy up the preserved threads and install a new retainer, lesson learned. Sail on.

N.
I Do Vapor Blasting! viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9881

Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

http://www.restocycle.com Ikon shocks for your CBX! https://www.ikonshocksusa.com/collectio ... 1000-79-80

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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by shiskowd »

Thanks for the suggestions, truly a mess :(

I ended up cutting a number of grooves in the retainer with a rotary tool and it readily broke apart with a few blows of a punch. The first few threads on the outside edge of both pieces are foobared - it's like the aluminum fused together, there was no getting this off. The tread pitch is 1.5mm and I was able to clean up all but the last few threads scraping the inside with a 12mm x 1.5mm bottoming tap. Probably the best approach is to have a machine shop attempt to restore the threads on a lathe or simply machine away the inside 4mm of threads. There will be enough threads to hold the new retainer in place.

Sail on :lol: .

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Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

shiskowd
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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by shiskowd »

Hmm - seems a tap that large does exist. That would be a bugger to get started by hand...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/54mm-x-1-5-Met ... SwYNZaxHZi
2010 KTM 690 Enduro Rally, 1979 CBX 'A' & 'B', 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T
Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by Rick Pope »

That's not a bottoming tap, so wouldn't really help much.
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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by NobleHops »

This went wrong for you the very same way it went wrong for us a couple of times.

“Combing” it with a smaller tap of the proper thread pitch as you’ve done is how we’ve repaired those too. Clean out what you can with a stiff straight pick too. We’ve been able to install new retainers when this happened to us like so. All part of the joy of these projects, right? :-). Green locktite might be a wise back-up, as you’re going to have trouble staking the new retainer in successfully. You can go ahead and ask me what happens if you fail to secure that retainer if you like, I’ve made every mistake at least once, including that one.

N.
I Do Vapor Blasting! viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9881

Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

http://www.restocycle.com Ikon shocks for your CBX! https://www.ikonshocksusa.com/collectio ... 1000-79-80

shiskowd
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Re: Bearing retainer removal: How-to with pics and tool Pr0n

Post by shiskowd »

Thanks Nils, I've ordered the retainer and will carefully find a way to thread it in.

You have to finish the story of the loose retainer.... :lol:
2010 KTM 690 Enduro Rally, 1979 CBX 'A' & 'B', 1975 Moto Guzzi 850T
Long Sleeping '79 CBX Restoration > viewtopic.php?f=102&t=11699

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