Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?


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Syscrush
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

VMD is a near-certainty. Cleveland this weekend will happen only if there's some weird Star Trek wormhole action. :D

As for the oil - it's cheap at the register, but it weighs heavy on my conscience and it's a pain in the ass.

It seems that the amount I've been losing is all over the map - at first I thought it was about 1L/1000km, then it looked like it might be as bad as 1L/400km.

The updated plan is:
  1. With the various leaks sealed up, I'm going to monitor the consumption closely and try to get some real numbers.
  2. Fit an oil cooler & thermostat to keep the temps operating within in a narrower range.
  3. Get the bike on the dyno to assess overall engine health. Will a sniffer indicate if it's pressurizing the crankcase and burning oil?
  4. Pull the #1 and #6 plugs every 1000km or so and look for signs of oil burning.
Is there a way to test valve seals? Do you just do a visual inspection?
Phil in Toronto
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by daves79x »

Smoking upon start-up, then clearing up is classic sign of bad valve seals.

Dave

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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

Thanks, Dave. I really don't think that's happening. Sometimes when I have trouble getting it started (after sitting a long time and then starting at cold temps), I end up with some smoke, but it's black/fuel smoke, not blue/oil smoke. I've always attributed that to flooding it in my attempt to find the right sweet spot for getting it started.

But I can't say with certainty because I park inside a condo parking garage and I have the bike pointed at the exit before I hit the starter. As soon as the engine's alive, I'm moving so I don't sit there pumping poison into air that's gonna be breathed by my neighbors any more than I have to.
Phil in Toronto
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

I've done a few hundred km since the shop found and fixed 5 leaks. And the right side oil cooler line is leaking. That was supposed to have been already rectified via the new lines & oil cooler, but that's on hold for a bit. Some extra urgency now to get it taken care of, I don't like getting all that oil on my new boots!
Phil in Toronto
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

Here's the tidied-up thermostat - the bike goes to a fabricator on Saturday to have all of the oil-related goodies fit.

Image

Image


It really looks like it should fit under the tank now, it just seems like a shame to hide it. :)
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

And it looks like the t-stat has been redesigned so that it should have a much better chance of fitting as delivered stock:

Image

If anyone else decides to order this thing, I'd suggest calling the source to specify that you want the black one with rounded corners, not the big rectangular block.
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

Even after the machining, my Earl's thermostat wouldn't readily fit, so I went back to do more research. That research led me to thermostasis, which sells a much more compact unit. It's also a much less expensive, especially when you factor in the fact that it ships with 4 AN-6 connectors already installed, and a 1/4" NPT plug in the temp gauge sender port - with the Earl's setup, you have to shell out for that stuff in addition to the thermostat itself.

http://thermostasis.com/products


The operating principle appears exactly the same, it's just smaller & less expensive - and it comes in a variety of temperature settings from 170-205F. Right now, I'm excited about it, but I'm on tenterhooks until everything's buttoned up and working.
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

I got these pics from the builder today. Looks like it fits great, and clears the tach line fine - using the OEM brackets with his custom-made spacers:

Image

Image


The AN-10 lines were just way too big to be snaked around with the thermostat in place, so we went with -6. Smaller than OEM, but they should flow plenty for this engine.

Image

Image



And yes, there's a thermostat in here!

Image
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Sharpie66 »

OK small hijack here.....Having discovered a leaking oil cooler line on X2, I have since read almost every thread on the topic here and have a couple questions.

At first I thought I would buy used lines on Ebay but have decided against that believing I would just experience problems again in the future with 30+ year old lines. I like the idea of making my own lines but wonder if I am limited by my skillset.

Phil, in your last pics posted I see you used the original fittings. Could you let me know what I need to transition from new lines to the stock fittings? Will I need to weld anything or is that a crimp fitting on the new line to an NPT fitting and then to the original fitting? I don't know how to weld which is why I ask and also I assume I would need to purchase the proper crimping tool if that is a crimp fitting.

Perhaps I should just have these made for me but I really like the process of learning and doing things myself. Plus, I think I might install new lines on X1 at the same time. Yes, I am a little neurotic but in good company here. :D

One last question....X2, when completed, will be run hard by myself and others. I wonder if I should consider the 10 row Earls oil cooler at this time. Does it make that big a difference over the stock cooler?

Thanks for any help on this.

Patrick
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by EMS »

Patrick:

I think Tim's is still selling new oil lines. May be worth looking into :think:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/honda-cbx-brand ... f1&vxp=mtr

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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Jeff Bennetts »

Patrick, regardless of whether you do it yourself or have a shop make you a set remember to orient the fittings the same as the OEM lines or you'll end up with a twist/bind in the lines.

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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Syscrush »

Sharpie66 wrote:At first I thought I would buy used lines on Ebay but have decided against that believing I would just experience problems again in the future with 30+ year old lines.
I agree. You want new lines.
I like the idea of making my own lines but wonder if I am limited by my skillset.
That's for you to decide. :) I paid someone else to do mine, which is partly about my skillset and partly about my lack of a workspace.
Phil, in your last pics posted I see you used the original fittings. Could you let me know what I need to transition from new lines to the stock fittings? Will I need to weld anything or is that a crimp fitting on the new line to an NPT fitting and then to the original fitting? I don't know how to weld which is why I ask and also I assume I would need to purchase the proper crimping tool if that is a crimp fitting.
To be clear, I didn't do the work, but I can tell you what I had done, and what I see as the options from my own research.

What was done was: The stock fittings were rescued from the stock lines by cutting the crimp ends off the stock lines. Then the fittings had the nipple on the end cut off, and were welded to one end of an NPT-AN adapter. Then the lines were fit with straight hose ends which spin onto the NPT-AN adapter. That's at the engine side. At the cooler side, it's all AN fittings.

Another approach you can take is just jam the stock fitting into an appropriate hose (I think AN-10) and use a hose clamp. No welding or other fabrication required.

Perhaps I should just have these made for me but I really like the process of learning and doing things myself. Plus, I think I might install new lines on X1 at the same time. Yes, I am a little neurotic but in good company here. :D
If you want to buy 2 3' lengths of AN-10 hose plus an assortment of hose ends & fittings, I can make you a good deal. I bought that stuff then ended up having to switch to AN-6 so that all of the plumbing for the thermostat would work and fit under my tank. If you're not using a thermostat, you can probably make it work.
One last question....X2, when completed, will be run hard by myself and others. I wonder if I should consider the 10 row Earls oil cooler at this time. Does it make that big a difference over the stock cooler?
When you look at the stock one side-by-side with a 10 row or 13 row, it's hard to imagine that the upgrade isn't worth it. Of course, it's not just about how hard you run the bike, it's about the conditions. Sitting in stop & go traffic for long enough even on a cool day will eventually run those temps very high on most bikes. Sustained high-speed running shouldn't cause overheating on most bikes, even in hot weather.
Phil in Toronto
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Sharpie66 »

EMS wrote:Patrick:

I think Tim's is still selling new oil lines. May be worth looking into :think:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/honda-cbx-brand ... f1&vxp=mtr
Ouch. That at least gives me a starting point of cost. I had no idea. Thanks for finding that for me. For some reason my Ebay search did not show me this.
Syscrush wrote: Another approach you can take is just jam the stock fitting into an appropriate hose (I think AN-10) and use a hose clamp. No welding or other fabrication required.
I was actually wondering if this would work for a short term fix. Seemed to simple of a solution. She is really seeping a lot of oil right now and I would like a temporary fix so I can proceed with dialing in the carbs.
Syscrush wrote:If you want to buy 2 3' lengths of AN-10 hose plus an assortment of hose ends & fittings, I can make you a good deal. I bought that stuff then ended up having to switch to AN-6 so that all of the plumbing for the thermostat would work and fit under my tank. If you're not using a thermostat, you can probably make it work.
Just might have to talk to you about that deal. I am going to a few shops in Buffalo this week to see what kind of pricing I can get if I have these made locally. I really don't want to get gouged because I am looking for custom work on a vintage bike. It should be interesting and I will report back with what I find.

Thanks so much for the replies gentleman.
Patrick
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by Sharpie66 »

EMS wrote:Patrick:

I think Tim's is still selling new oil lines. May be worth looking into :think:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/honda-cbx-brand ... f1&vxp=mtr
Surprised I missed this vendor this past year. I went to his 'ebay store' after posting here and found this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/honda-cbx-braid ... 6016.l4276

Could it really be this simple?
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Re: Leaking oil: big deal, or small deal?

Post by EMS »

Sharpie66 wrote: Surprised I missed this vendor this past year. I went to his 'ebay store' after posting here and found this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/honda-cbx-braid ... 6016.l4276

Could it really be this simple?
This is one way to go. These use your existing fittings and clamps. The fittings will not be crimped.

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