you tell me

[cbxtacy]

Took that into consideration. 72degree V. Ideal would be 60degree but there was not enough room for the intake manifold. Just did not consider enough things when timing the cams initially. One of the things to consider is the cams are spinning the opposite direction and the valves are at an inclination. If the timing marks were perpendicular to the valves it would be easier but they're not. Remember, the cams are spinning the opposite direction.

[alimey4u2]

To add to Dons remarks also, what is the desired firing sequence ? Or am I thinking too far ahead...

[cbxtacy]

Thinking to far ahead. You're only limited to two separate firing sequences and I have no idea which one Andreas is going to use or which one would be the best. Look at it as two separate inline 6's running 72degree's apart.

[EMS]

I am still behind I really don't understand what the problem is I can't see what the valve inclination has to do with it? Timing marks perpendicular to the valves The cams are spinning the opposite direction, so what? The pistons go up and down. The valves go open and close. The camshaft rotates at half the speed the engine does. This may be the only problem you are wrestling with. Your valve actuation sequence is now off, because it is reversed. But I still don't get what you are really asking.....

[alimey4u2]

Thinking to far ahead. You're only limited to two separate firing sequences and I have no idea which one Andreas is going to use or which one would be the best. Look at it as two separate inline 6's running 72degree's apart.

[Rick Pope]

Are there any cam grinders currently making cams for a CBX? If so, I'd bet they're doing it digitally. Just have them grind two sets, with one set reversed....... Seems like a rather elegant solution.

[cbxtacy]

The timing marks are not perpendicular to the valves. Andreas' phone is acting up so I went to La Jolla to see him earlier. He did exactly what I thought would be the solution to time the cams. All the cams are within 2 degrees of each other. To find the lobe centers he did not measure from when the cams start to open or finally close. He measured at 40/1000" lift. For the firing order he went with the #1 rear, then #6 front 72 degrees later. When I'm talking about cylinder #'s, I'm going from left to right just so you understand. That way every time one fires on the rear cyl, the opposite one on the other side of the engine fires next. The other choice would be to have the one on the same crank journal fire 72 degrees later. He did not want that much power going through a single journal that's been cut down to make room for 2 rods. I think.

When I picture the engine in my mind, I don't look at it as a V12, I look at it as a CBX, times 2. Then I break down each CBX engine as 3 each twin cylinder 350cc motors on a 360 degree crank. Andreas broke down the motor and checked the chain clearances and there's more then meets the eye when you look down the cylinders past the tensioners and other necessary stuff stuffed down there.

And Andreas wants to thank Louis for the cam chain tensioners. Shameless plug. Others that have helped over the years-CBXMAN, Doug at FDR Motorsports in Paducah, KY, MBB, and others over the years.

[cbxtacy]

Nice video Larry, thank you.

[Don #6141]

Nice video Larry, thank you.

It sounds like he ran into many of the same problems, George

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/featu ... index.html

He uses just one chan for both banks and the rear bank runs backwards too

Don

[cbxtacy]

Andreas did not want a cam chain that long and did not want to worry about less then 180 degrees of sprocket turning the chain. And he wanted the rear cams turning the correct way because even though the cam profiles are real close, the opening ramp is usually fast to open big because that's one way to make more power and the closing ramp usually closes at the end gently to keep the valve from slamming down on the valve seat which would accelerate valve train wear. And timing the cams is too imprecise when measuring from where the cam starts to open and finishes closing. He used 40/1000 of an inch for his measurements to get the lobe centers. I learn a lot just watching him.

[EMS]

He used 40/1000 of an inch for his measurements to get the lobe centers. .

That's one milimeter (1mm).

[alimey4u2]

George, we all want Andreas to make this happen, I think all CBXdom is behind him 100% but to my uneducated eyes, the dual gear reversal "seems" to be the simplest answer to the conundrum.

All well & good me sat behind a sterile screen.... Just wish you guys the best of luck & I'm sure over time the problems will be solved....

[cbxtacy]

and here's the solution that made Andreas happy



he made little ridges that go between the sprockets. The rivets on all the chains (cams and hyvo) have a fairly flat head. He's using his dremel to round the heads a bit so it they do touch, they will (hopefully) slide past each other. He believes there will be enough room though. He drills and re-drills a lot of holes to mount stuff (cam chain tensioners) and sometimes has to fill in old holes. He uses this stuff, when he runs out, where can he get more? I've seen it before but can't remember.



and here's a barrel, you can see the polishing he did to make it more purdy

[cbxtacy]

10 days since I started this thread and in that time Andreas has had the crank out (a couple times), made the shields, and installed them on the crank. And that's why us mere mortals can't have our own CBX V12.

[Don #6141]

Maybe this guy could answer some of your questions



Who would ever guess that the front bank could possibly cool properly . . . . or that the cam oiling would be adequate with it as horizontal as it is?

But . . . . . it appears to be running . . . . .

Don