OIL PRESSURE / TEMPERATURE


Post Reply
Don #6141

Oil Temperature Gauge

Post by Don #6141 »

Well, I finally got around to making use of the oil gallery plug George sent me. I drilled and tapped it for 1/8th pipe threads to fit the 300 degree VDO sender for my oil temperature gauge. Pretty straightforward procedure and if you're really, really careful to get it exactly centered, the head of the sender will be inside the footprint of the plug, so you can install it on the bike with a deep socket and not bother the sender itself

Installing the gauge in place of the stock voltmeter was a bit more work . . . . but it did (eventually) fit in there - With a few tweaks. Mine isn't rubber mounted like the stock voltmeter was, which means the indicator lights (Turn, Beam, Pressure and Neutral) are no longer rubber mounted either, since they mount on the back of the gauge. Hopefully I won't have a big problem with vibration ruining the gauge or the lamp filaments - We'll see

3123

The meter is slightly smaller than the hole in the cluster face, so I had to make a spacer for it to fit. The gauge fits perfectly inside a piece of 2 inch PVC water pipe and the spacer looks for all the world like the rubber cushion that the old voltmeter mounted in, doesn't it? There is a recess cut away on the back side of the spacer which hold the gauge centered in the hole

The illumination bulb for the gauge is an automotive one and it's too bright to match the speedo and tach, so I painted the top half of the bulb with black paint and that toned it down enough to look like a match

The little round LED in the unused bezel next to the Beam indicator is my new voltmeter. It's a Tri-color LED which lights up either green, amber or red. Flashing red for a really low voltage (below 12 or so) and steady red for anything below 12.5, amber for 12.6 to 13, steady green for 13 to 15 and flashing green for anything above 15. The LED is plenty bright, so it will really catch your eye, but when in the steady green zone it dims after about 5 seconds so that it won't be a distraction at night. The guts of the meter is in a black anodized metal box a little smaller than a box of wooden matches and I mounted that on the back of the gauge cluster with some epoxy

I'll get it on the bike in the next couple of days and see how everything works, but it passes all the preliminary tests so I don't anticipate any problems. Gotta remove my crossover tube for the front forks as it's in the way of the voltmeter box

Don

User avatar
alimey4u2
ICOA Web Video Director
ICOA Web Video Director
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: Uphill, WsM, United Kingdom

Post by alimey4u2 »

Way cool Don, you've kept it looking stock with the upgraded instrumentation.... 8) 8) :bow:
ICOA # 656

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Post by EMS »

Great job, Don! Much better use of the instrument position! What I don't understand, however, is the statement about the "idiot lights" being mounted on the back of the instrument??? They are normally glued into the cover panel???

Don #6141

Post by Don #6141 »

No - The bezels themselves are glued to the cluster frame but the lights which illuminate them press into a white molded piece (which keeps the light on only the one bezel it belongs on) and that white part was originally mounted to the back of the voltmeter. The voltmeter is isolated from the cluster frame with it's rubber ring and then the white piece is isolated from the voltmeter with 4 rubber bushings. Pretty sure they did all this to get away from various oscillations which would shorten the life of the lamps . . . . and it works - How often have you had to replace any of those bulbs?

The temp gauge is larger (deeper) than the voltmeter and I had to cut up the white piece a good deal to get it back to it's original location and it's now mounted to the back of the gauge with a single stud . . . . but it all fits and it still looks relatively stock

IMO, the new 'voltmeter' is the neatest part of the whole deal

Don

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Post by EMS »

O.K.! Misunderstanding! You are talking about the light bulbs! 8)

Don #6141

Post by Don #6141 »

On a cool 60 degree day, the oil temp rises fairly quickly to 200 degrees and stays there, so long as you're moving at any speed, no matter how hard you thrash it. Go from that to stop and go traffic and it adds about 20 degrees - This is with a late model 5 row cooler on a '79. When you stop and idle, it rises fairly quickly (within a minute or two) I suppose because the cooler isn't doing much without any airflow

It will be interesting to see what it does in warmer weather. We're supposed to have low '70's for the next few days, so I'll try it again then

The voltmeter is NEAT!!

Don

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Post by EMS »

Here is an issue to consider:

Low oil temperature is not always desirable. The problem may not be prevalent in a wet sump bike like a CBX, but in a dry sump system with a separate oil tank, it is definitely recommended to allow the oil to heat up over 212° F in order to evaporate all the moisture in the oil. I am sure everyone knows why. George may argue with me, because he wants to make more horsepower out of a cool engine, but I think that anything larger than the Prolink stock oil cooler or, maybe, a 6- or 8-row cooler is not what you would want on an air-cooled bike. The fact that it looks "cool" and gives the rider that "fast pilot" image is one thing, common sense is another.
Solid original engineering and the desire to re-engineer a design clash once again.

Don #6141

Post by Don #6141 »

No doubt that you want the oil to get above 200 degrees on any given day but I don't think you could add a cooler which would prevent that in normal usage - Once you stop moving, the oil heats up pretty quick

I took it for another riide this evening when it's now 50 degrees outside instead of the previous 60 and my oil was hotter when I got back than it was on my previous ride when it was warmer. The difference? - I made a pass through town at slower speeds with a few stoplights mixed in. Despite a brisk 65MPH run home for 4 or 5 miles, the oil was still at 220 when I shut it off. If it does that on a cool day, imagine what it would be on a summer day

I'll be able to document the differences with a larger cooler - I have all the parts to install an Earl's 10 row and it will go on later this spring after it warms up some more. I want to get a better baseline with the stock cooler and some warmer temps

My Earl's 10 row is going to look as stock as I can make it - Everything painted black, stock lines and so forth. I donj't care for the 'look' . . . . but I think I need the extra cooling, especially on those 90 degree summer days, which we have plenty of down here. I've overheated the bike a bit twice already in downtown traffic and I'll feel better when I don't have to worry about that anymore

Don

User avatar
alimey4u2
ICOA Web Video Director
ICOA Web Video Director
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: Uphill, WsM, United Kingdom

Post by alimey4u2 »

If you have too much cooling, tape it up in the winter & leave it open in the summer.... 8) High tech would be a thermostat.... 8)
ICOA # 656

Don #6141

Post by Don #6141 »

Good idea Larry . . . . and with a gauge, it'll be easy to tell

Don

User avatar
cbxtacy
Posting God
Posting God
Posts: 2543
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:22 am
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Post by cbxtacy »

It's not the power I'm after but the longevity. Most of the oil temp guages I've had on my CBX's end at 300f. I've managed to peg everyone of them with stock coolers. When I did my coast to coast with Dan, I set my speedo on 90 and kept it there for 2 days. It was in sep/oct and not too hot. When we went ot Canada it was 100+ every day. You don't need to get the oil temp over 212 to get rid of the moisture. If you do get it to 212 it will almost instantly turn any condensation in the oil to steam. If you get it up to 200 on a nice long ride it will cause any condensation to evaporate. With the coolers I have, my riding style, and the local weather I really need them. Not everyone does. I bought my latest 82 four years ago and have ridden it 60,000+ miles since then.
one out of four people in this country is mentally unbalanced
think of your three closest friends, if they're okay then
YOU'RE THE ONE

Rick Pope
ICOA Rally Director
ICOA Rally Director
Posts: 2270
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:16 pm
Location: Lawrencburg, IN
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

Post by Rick Pope »

I've been toying with the idea of running twin coolers, because, well, it'd be different. On a late model you could place them vertically out near the lower fairings, or place them conventionally but stacked. One could even plumb them in parrallel and put in a valve to close one in cool weather.

I know, it sounds too complicated. You might be right.....
Rick Pope
Either garage is too small or we have too many bikes. Or Momma's car needs to go outside.

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Post by EMS »

cbxtacy wrote:It's not the power I'm after but the longevity. Most of the oil temp guages I've had on my CBX's end at 300f. I've managed to peg everyone of them with stock coolers. .
It all depends where you pick up the temperature, but for any system available for use on a vehicle, I would be suspicious of the instrument , if it shows 300°F.
I know that in lab test on temperatures in gasoline engines the area just under the compression ring sees maybe 320°F. In Diesel engines this can reach 600°F. That is normally what the oil is exposed to.

The International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) has the most severe standards for motor oil. Their latest standard, GF-4 was approved in 2004. A key test is the Sequence IIIG, which involves running a 3.8 L, GM 3.8 L V-6 at 125 horsepower (93 kW), 3600 rpm, and 150 °C (300 °F) oil temperature for 100 hours. These are much more severe conditions than any API-specified oil was designed for.
The IIIG test is about 50% more difficult than the previous IIIF test, used in GF-3 and API SL oils. Engine oils bearing the API starburst symbol since 2005 are ILSAC GF-4 compliant.

Don #6141

Post by Don #6141 »

My oil temp sender is in the side to side gallery and on the right side of the engine - You can see the sender above the exhaust when the bike is on the side stand. I wasn't sure where to put it and chose that particular cap to replace only because it brought the sender wire out near the ignition harness so I could hide the wire behind that cable coming out of the ignition timeing cover on the right side of the engine

That oil gallery is fairly low and near the sump so it's probably pretty representative of the temp in the sump itself . . . . which should be the coolest oil in the system . . . . no? I'd bet that the oil up on top of the head is easily 50 or more degrees hotter than the oil in the sump, so even if I never got the sump to 200 degrees, the moisture in the oil would be all cooked out after a pass or two over the cylinder head

The new voltmeter turns red anytime the alternator output falls below 12 volts . . . . which is basically anytime the engine is idling. You don't have to bump it off idle much to turn it green again (which means 13 volts or more) and it's really hard to get it to stay im the amber range (between 12 and 13 volts) - It's basically either red or green. It's plenty bright enough to catch your eye even in full daylight and then when it dims after 5 seconds or so it's still there . . . . maybe even still to bright when it's dark out, but I've not experienced that so far

Should be 72 here today, so I'm going for a long ride

Don

User avatar
alimey4u2
ICOA Web Video Director
ICOA Web Video Director
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: Uphill, WsM, United Kingdom

Post by alimey4u2 »

representative of the temp in the sump itself . . . . which should be the coolest oil in the system . . . . no?
You're gonna hate me for this one Don, No...Exit the oil cooler ... :lol:
ICOA # 656

Post Reply

Return to “ENGINES: Maintenance, Performance, Parts Sources”