OIL PRESSURE / TEMPERATURE


Post Reply
Brian G
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Post by Brian G »

Um...., Pardon me - I'm new here, but has there been a problem with stock CBX's suffering from oil temperature related failures? I've always thought that because I'm north of the 49th parallel and in relatively cool conditions, I wouldn't have to worry about 2 & 5 getting too hot.

Should I be looking into 10 or 13 row coolers???

Regards,
Brian
1969 BSA Rocket 3
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1977 Yamaha XS650D Cafe
1978 Honda CB550K
1979 Honda CBX

User avatar
alimey4u2
ICOA Web Video Director
ICOA Web Video Director
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: Uphill, WsM, United Kingdom

Post by alimey4u2 »

Brian, could you explain the oil "temperature" related failures ?
What oil are you using ?
Have you checked ( measured) the oil pressure ?
ICOA # 656

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Post by EMS »

Brian G wrote:Um...., Pardon me - I'm new here, but has there been a problem with stock CBX's suffering from oil temperature related failures? I've always thought that because I'm north of the 49th parallel and in relatively cool conditions, I wouldn't have to worry about 2 & 5 getting too hot.

Should I be looking into 10 or 13 row coolers???

Regards,
Brian
:D :D Good questions. An oil temperature gauge is a nice additional gadget. Is it necessary on the CBX??? Maybe in SoCal with ambient temperatures of over 80F on more than 300 days of the year...People have done tons of things to "improve" the temperature characteristics of CBXes from large oil sumps to expensive oil coolers. Did anybody have a problem with temperature on a stock CBX before? I doubt it. But I have also installed a CB1100R oil cooler (13 row) on my 79 CBX. Reason: I don't know, really. Probably because I had the cooler. :roll:

Don #6141

Post by Don #6141 »

Well, in cooler climates 80K or more is frequently done on a stock CBX engine with no problems at all. If an engine down here where I live on the Gulf Coast needed a rebuild at only 50K, nobody would think if it as having been a 'failure' . . . . but then it only lasted half as long as it might have. Hot oil (above about 285) just doesn't work as well as cooler oil does and it would sure be nice to know when you're approaching the 'danger zone'

The '79 got a 3 row cooler and then in '80 they upgraded that to 5 rows . . . . and then in '83 the 1100F got an even larger one - That tells me that Honda was learning more and more about oil temperature as they went along and maybe, just maybe the early bikes are 'borderline' at best - It will be nice to see, so it's more than just a 'gadget' . . . . at least in my book

This is my first summer here with my new Katrina bike and I've already overheated it twice. Once while riding through heavily populated residential areas where I never got above 25 MPH for about half an hour and then a month or so later in heavy city traffic, despite the fact that I was shutting it off and restarting when we weren't moving at all. Mine feels like you need to switch to reserve (and I did) when it gets too warm . . . . but then once you get it moving again for a couple of minutes it runs just fine again and you realize that you were no where near running out of gas. Luckily in both instances I was able to make a turn and drive away at higher speeds

I'm sure an extra quart of oil would help, as would a bigger oil cooler. I'll bet at any given time, a quart and a half or two of the 5 quarts are up on top of the cylinder head just cooking away - Cool oil probably has nearly as much to do with cooling the head as moving air does . . . . more when the bike isn't moving or is moving slowly

I want an oil temp gauge too and once all the logistics are worked out, I intend to replace my voltmeter with one as well. Watching the temps when the engine begins to overheat will tell me lots about the necessity of a bigger oil cooler . . . . and watching them after the larger cooler is installed will tell a lot about how much improvement the larger cooler made. I know I'll get lots more use out of it that I do with the voltmeter . . . . monitoring the health of the charging system can be easily done in other ways

If I lived in Canada and only saw 90+ temps once or twice per year, I'd probably just forget about it all and go riding on another day, but down here if you don't ride on the 90 degree days . . . . . well, there went half your summer

Don

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Post by EMS »

A friend of mine is heavily into early Goldwings and he is currently restoring a 1978 GL1000. They have a small instrument pod on the fake tank. This may be an idea if one could find a nice pod to fit atop a CBX tank.
I have these instruments from another application, btw, and they would all fit the Voltmeter hole. I think it is a standard 52mm instrument. The function of the Voltmeter could be delegated to another design instruments. Like a small digital strip-type multi-function instrument.


2853

Brian G
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: PEI, Canada

Post by Brian G »

Good day all -

alimey4u2 wrote:
Brian, could you explain the oil "temperature" related failures ?
What oil are you using ?
Have you checked ( measured) the oil pressure ?
I guess I was thinking primarily of viscosity breakdown with consequent loss of the dynamic film for the bearings. At the temperatures being discussed here (300+ degrees? Yikes! :shock: If the oil temp on the old marine diesels on which I occasionally work reaches 150F it's cause for alarm!) you must be getting close to the limit for mineral oil - which was all they had in '79. Especially if you consider that the temperature of the oil actually in contact with the surfaces to be cooled could be much higher.

I'm using a full synthetic 5w-50 in both my BSA triple and the CBX and haven't checked the oil pressure - but the light goes out immediately after starting and doesn't flicker even when hot. I didn't think I had a problem, but ignorance is not necessarily bliss....

Thanks,
Brian
1969 BSA Rocket 3
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1977 Yamaha XS650D Cafe
1978 Honda CB550K
1979 Honda CBX

User avatar
alimey4u2
ICOA Web Video Director
ICOA Web Video Director
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: Uphill, WsM, United Kingdom

Post by alimey4u2 »

Brian G wrote: I'm using a full synthetic 5w-50 in both my BSA triple and the CBX and haven't checked the oil pressure - but the light goes out immediately after starting and doesn't flicker even when hot. I didn't think I had a problem, but ignorance is not necessarily bliss....

Thanks,
Brian
Excellent.... 8) Unless you do long term stop/go riding in traffic I really wouldn't worry. I thrashed my CBX in very hot weather & stripped it to find NO perceived or measurable wear....
If you do fit a larger cooler & ride in colder weather, I would also install a thermostatic device to obtain rapid warm up....
ICOA # 656

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Post by EMS »

Another concern with too large of an oil cooler is the operating temperature being too low. You should reach at least 212F in the sump/oil tank in order to evaporate any moisture in the oil.

User avatar
alimey4u2
ICOA Web Video Director
ICOA Web Video Director
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: Uphill, WsM, United Kingdom

Post by alimey4u2 »

EMS wrote:Another concern with too large of an oil cooler is the operating temperature being too low. You should reach at least 212F in the sump/oil tank in order to evaporate any moisture in the oil.
:idea: :thumupp:
ICOA # 656

User avatar
bdento59
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Yardley
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Contact:

Post by bdento59 »

... the light goes out immediately after starting and doesn't flicker even when hot. I didn't think I had a problem, but ignorance is not necessarily bliss....Thanks,Brian


Brian,

Just an FYI, the OEM oil pressure switch is designed to turn off the light at 2.8 PSI, so short of catastrophic oil pump failure, it doesn't really tell you much. In this regard, it truly lives up to it's "idiot light" moniker.
Bill Denton
Yardley, PA
wkdenton@verizon.net
Lazarus Cycleworks, LLC
We Breathe New Life into Old Bikes

User avatar
bdento59
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Yardley
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Contact:

Post by bdento59 »

cbxtacy wrote:Email me with a pic of the plug you desire and I'll mail it to you. That way your bike isn't down if you crack the plug. That's for anyone.
E-mail sent, thanks.
Bill Denton
Yardley, PA
wkdenton@verizon.net
Lazarus Cycleworks, LLC
We Breathe New Life into Old Bikes

User avatar
bdento59
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Yardley
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Contact:

Post by bdento59 »

cbxtacy wrote:If you need a plug, I have 4 spare engines... Email me with a pic of the plug you desire and I'll mail it to you. That way your bike isn't down if you crack the plug. That's for anyone.
George, can I take you up on that offer of a sealing plug? As you know, they are NLA from Honda. I sent you an e-mail with my address but haven't heard back from you. TIA
Bill Denton
Yardley, PA
wkdenton@verizon.net
Lazarus Cycleworks, LLC
We Breathe New Life into Old Bikes

User avatar
alimey4u2
ICOA Web Video Director
ICOA Web Video Director
Posts: 5093
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: Uphill, WsM, United Kingdom

Post by alimey4u2 »

bdento59 wrote:George, can I take you up on that offer of a sealing plug? As you know, they are NLA from Honda. I sent you an e-mail with my address but haven't heard back from you. TIA
He's most likely on the road or holiday Bill, he will pop in soon....
ICOA # 656

User avatar
cbxtacy
Posting God
Posting God
Posts: 2543
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:22 am
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Post by cbxtacy »

I got the email and thought I emailed you back but I didn't, just checked. I'll have one out by this next weekend and in the mail. Anyone else want one? I got's tons (4 engines worth) of them.
one out of four people in this country is mentally unbalanced
think of your three closest friends, if they're okay then
YOU'RE THE ONE

User avatar
bdento59
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Yardley
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Contact:

Post by bdento59 »

cbxtacy wrote: I'll have one out by this next weekend and in the mail.
Thanks George, I really appreciate it.
Bill Denton
Yardley, PA
wkdenton@verizon.net
Lazarus Cycleworks, LLC
We Breathe New Life into Old Bikes

Post Reply

Return to “ENGINES: Maintenance, Performance, Parts Sources”