Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Larry Zimmer
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
Posts: 2196
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Brighton, MI
Location: Brighton, Mich
Contact:

Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Does anyone know of a source for bronze bushings for the 81/82 prolink rear suspension links? Would replace the filled-phenolic (they appear to be) originals. Bushings would look something like this:

5469
Larry Zimmer
cbxlarry@sbcglobal.net

Larry Zimmer
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
Posts: 2196
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Brighton, MI
Location: Brighton, Mich
Contact:

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Some further FYI for y'all who may do a pro-link rear suspension re-build in the future. The bushing and collar sizes listed in the Honda shop manual, for the linkage arms, are 'reversed'. This might be obvious -- might not. As shown, the collars would be a press-fit in the 'bushing'. NOT!!! The collar is pinched between linkage parts when the bolts are tightened; and, it rotates in the bushing. I am referring to page 244/14-14 in the manual. The dimensions shown in the lower left should read :

Collar: O.D. 14.966-14.984 (standard); 14.958 minimum (service limit)
Bushing: I.D. 15.000-15.052 (standard); 15.158 maximum (service limit)

These dimensions apply to all the bushings and collars in the suspension rods and the swingarm. Note: Measure the bushing ID with the bushing in the rods/swingarm. They will change (grow) ever so slightly when removed. Be certain to clean them thoroughly before measuring.

And, NO, I don't know of a source for swingarm bushings. If I find one, I'll post for all.
Larry Zimmer
cbxlarry@sbcglobal.net

User avatar
SteveG
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:16 pm
Location: Skaneateles, NY
Location: Skaneateles, NY

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by SteveG »

Larry -

Thanks for keeping up on this. I have re-lubed those bushings twice so far (25 k or so miles on the bike), and have been concerned about locating replacement bushings.

Will be keeping my eyes open for replacements.

Steve
82 CBX, 82 CB900F Project, 81 CB900(985)F, 79 CB750(810)F, 06 Wee-Strom

panteradave
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:09 pm
Location: Kingwood/TX/USA
Location: Houston/TX/USA

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by panteradave »

I happen to be rebuilding a prolink suspension at the moment, so your above comments are both timely and very interesting. When I disassembled the prolink shock linkage (the link bars, as well as all the collars and bushings) on a low mileage bike (~7000 miles) I found practically no evidence of any prior lubrication. The plastic bushings were solidly locked into the link bar bores (no rotational movement here) and had to be punched out. Were the link bushings even lubed at the factory originally? The odd part is that the metal collars that ride inside the plastic bushings seemed to have suffered the most wear. Luckily the collars seem to be still mostly within wear limits (thanks for the update above by the way), but I fail to understand why the metal collars seem to be worn and not the softer plastic bushings???

I'm also puzzeled at how this linkage contraption actually works - what moves interally and what doesn't?? As mentioned, it seems that the metal collars should rotate inside the plastic bushings, and the collars can also rotate around the center pins (bolts actually). It looks like the plastic bushings can (should?) also rotate inside the link bar bores? Or no??

Anyway after a thourough cleaning and lub, I've test reassembled the link bar ends, complete with plastic bushings inside the link bar bushings and seals mounted on either end, then everything slid into the cast prolink linkage arms and the center bolt tightened down. It appears that the end seals are now pinned against the cast aluminum linkage arms and the seals are then forced to rotate around the plastic bushing ends (which may or may not rotate inside the link bars) as the suspension moves up and down. Once tightened down, the link bar motion is very stiff - I can pivot the bar back and forth by hand but there is significant internal resistance. Is this the way it's supposed to be or should the linkage move free and easy?

Any advice/help would be much appreciated.

Dave
Last edited by panteradave on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
Dave Bell

1982 CBX
2000 BMW K1200LT

1972 Detomaso Pantera GTS
2005 Acura NSX
2008 Roush F-150

Larry Zimmer
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
Posts: 2196
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Brighton, MI
Location: Brighton, Mich
Contact:

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Dave, here are several things I've learned while 'rebuilding' my prolink.
1) The plastic sleeves have a lubrication embedded throughout the material. It is evident on new parts. However, they should still be greased with the moly lube as stated in the shop manual.
2) The collars, as they are called, are pinched/trapped against the seals when the bolts are tightened. (The collars are a slight bit longer than the overall length to the outside of the assembled bushings in the links.) They, then, rotate within the bushings as the linkage rotates. In theory, the bolts and collars rotate as one -- the bolts do not (should not) rotate within the collars. Yes, the seals do (should) rotate with the bolt/collar as one. Be certain to grease the seal lip(s) and journal surface on the links where the seals ride when reassembling.
3) Note that in the shop manual, Honda have the specifications for the collar diameters and the bushing IDs reversed; i.e., the numbers they show for the collars should be for the bushings. And, vice versa.
4) Measuring my bushings, I found they were about .003 inch oversize. (This for my '82 at 33000 miles.) That is at the limit per the 'book'. A couple were a touch above that. How much is too much? Don't know. Nominal clearance according to the manual is .002 inch. Mine are slightly more than twice that. Given that I'm replacing the shock, I figured make the bushings and collars right.
5) Check your seals closely to be certain the seal lips haven't cracked. 8 of 12 of mine required replacement.

My bottom-line, I intend to do similar to what Steve has mentioned above -- lube fairly often. My intended schedule will be to pull the links apart and lube whenever I replace the rear tire. That would be about 8000 miles. Interestingly, the 'book' doesn't mention anything regarding greasing interval. It just says "grease" in the Maintenance section.

Hopefully, this helps.
Larry Zimmer
cbxlarry@sbcglobal.net

patzx12
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Galway Ireland
Location: Galway Ireland

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by patzx12 »

I am modifying my Pro-link.
Cut off the inner legs.
Made bushes in place of the plastic.
Used the standard inner sleeve.
The linkage is very strong, just look at the dogbones on a Hayabusa (1\4" alloy plate).
I am going to make Stainless steel outer supports just in case.
Fitted Varadero rear wheel 17" and Blackbird rear brake (the same as the Vara i think).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Larry Zimmer
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
Posts: 2196
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Brighton, MI
Location: Brighton, Mich
Contact:

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Neat and fun stuff. Let us know how it finishes!! Thanks.
Larry Zimmer
cbxlarry@sbcglobal.net

User avatar
Sharpie66
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:39 pm
Location: Holland,NY
Location: Holland,NY

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Sharpie66 »

Larry Zimmer wrote:Some further FYI for y'all who may do a pro-link rear suspension re-build in the future. The bushing and collar sizes listed in the Honda shop manual, for the linkage arms, are 'reversed'. This might be obvious -- might not. As shown, the collars would be a press-fit in the 'bushing'. NOT!!! The collar is pinched between linkage parts when the bolts are tightened; and, it rotates in the bushing. I am referring to page 244/14-14 in the manual. The dimensions shown in the lower left should read :

Collar: O.D. 14.966-14.984 (standard); 14.958 minimum (service limit)
Bushing: I.D. 15.000-15.052 (standard); 15.158 maximum (service limit)

These dimensions apply to all the bushings and collars in the suspension rods and the swingarm. Note: Measure the bushing ID with the bushing in the rods/swingarm. They will change (grow) ever so slightly when removed. Be certain to clean them thoroughly before measuring.

And, NO, I don't know of a source for swingarm bushings. If I find one, I'll post for all.
Right on Larry. I was just looking at this the other day and thinking that it was reversed. Confirmation is good.

Having recently disassembled the swing arm on X2, a 1982 CBX with 11,000 mi that has been sitting for 27 yrs, I decided to do the same to X1, also a 1982 CBX with 33,000 mi and my daily rider. :o Yikes! What a drastic difference. It was quite obvious this process has never been done to X1. All is apart and is now degreased and thoroughly clean.

Now for the problem.....on average the bushings for the rods are a solid .10 - .20 oversized and are out of round as well.
The collars are, on average, .10 undersized with substantial wear.
image.jpg
This leads to a combined tolerance of .20 - .30 on average and is quite apparent when dry fit. Being that these parts are NLA, here are a few questions I have......do I just grease heavily and maintain or should I just take that nice shiney swingarm with 11,000 mi sitting next to me and swap it over? :D. Either way, I would like to put this swingarm back into service if possible.

Thanks for any feedback, Gentlemen.

Patrick
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Don't take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive.

User avatar
Sharpie66
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:39 pm
Location: Holland,NY
Location: Holland,NY

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Sharpie66 »

Well, unable to solicit any feedback regarding this, I made the decision to swap swingarms and put the better one on my primary rider. As an added bonus, I had previously installed the Progressive shock on this swingarm as well. As far as the more worn swingarm, I will grease heavily and put back into service on X2 and hope for the best.

PC
Don't take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive.

User avatar
NobleHops
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 3867
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:17 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by NobleHops »

Let's make those parts, do a group buy.

Sorry you didn't get an answer or opinion Patrick.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

Larry Zimmer
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
Posts: 2196
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Brighton, MI
Location: Brighton, Mich
Contact:

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Hi, Patrick,

Sorry to not reply sooner. You did the best thing. Not knowing the condition of the 'new shiny' swing arm, It likely had fairly good bushings in it if those 11k miles were not to severe. (Assuming you did disassemble it and clean/grease things.) For now, your only hope for rehab of the other is to find parts on someone's shelf such as Western Hills Honda in Cincinnati, or other. Alternate would be to have a local machine shop cut some bushings and collars for you.
Larry Zimmer
cbxlarry@sbcglobal.net

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by EMS »

The original bushings and collars are still available new from CSM-NL

http://www.cmsnl.com/

Larry Zimmer
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
ICOA Web Post/Pix/Video Archive Mgt
Posts: 2196
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Brighton, MI
Location: Brighton, Mich
Contact:

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Larry Zimmer »

Thanks, Mike. Good to know. They are slowly becoming extinct in the NOS market. I notice, though, they do not have the swing-arm bushings. I could not find those anywhere two years ago.
Larry Zimmer
cbxlarry@sbcglobal.net

EMS
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 10151
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:55 am
Location: North East OH, ICOA 3904

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by EMS »

Larry:

What are the part-numbers?

User avatar
Sharpie66
ICOA Member
ICOA Member
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:39 pm
Location: Holland,NY
Location: Holland,NY

Re: Prolink Rear Suspension Link Bushings

Post by Sharpie66 »

Thank you, Gentleman, for the replies. I believe I was just looking for a vote of confidence that swapping swingarms was a good choice. I'm still quite new at all this and want to make good decisions regarding this machine which I love so very much. Plus, I am really so incredibly impressed with the knowledge put forth on this forum.

quote="Larry Zimmer"]Hi, Patrick,

Sorry to not reply sooner. You did the best thing. Not knowing the condition of the 'new shiny' swing arm, It likely had fairly good bushings in it if those 11k miles were not to severe. (Assuming you did disassemble it and clean/grease things.) For now, your only hope for rehab of the other is to find parts on someone's shelf such as Western Hills Honda in Cincinnati, or other. Alternate would be to have a local machine shop cut some bushings and collars for you.[/quote]

A little history regarding X2....this bike was sold to me as a non-running parts bike/project with issues at a price I could not pass on. After bringing her home, I decided to do everything possible to put this bike back on the road. I cleaned and greased the swingarm and it felt great when complete. I decided to do the same maintenence on X1 prior to this riding season. Really didn't want to start getting involved with swapping parts but felt that this was necessary. I sure wish I would have done this to X1 prior to putting 10,000 miles on her in 2 seasons.

I am very interested in buying new bushings and collars for the worn swingarm and will look into that in the future. Or, if a group buy presents itself, count me in.

Patrick
Don't take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive.

Post Reply

Return to “HANDLING: Suspension, Gearing, Frame Bracing, Non X Handling Part Upgrades, Rim Replacement Options, and more”