80 swingarm replacement bearings

[cbx6ss]

parts required =
91018-469-003 (2) Pr roller bearings
91017-469-003 (1) needle bearing

[cbx6ss]

BTW, why are these roller bearings sooooo expensive?? Any reason why I couldn't use a sealed bearing as an alternative? Then there's the needle bearing...

[NobleHops]

Dunno Brad, other than they are specific in size to this application and nobody had reason to make an equivalent. JimJim and I conspired to find an alternative a year or so ago and struck out. If you're needing new bearings for a Prolink then I'd just get a new-to-you Prolink swingarm as Dave suggested, and not have to fiddle with the rest of it. I don't think you'd notice any performance improvement with the 1100F swingarm vs a Prolink.

N.

[cbx6ss]

Thank you for your advice Nils. Any chance you still have the bearing dimensions? I thought I might poke around on this side of the island...

[NobleHops]

I measured it for Jim when he and explored this. Photos here:

http://noblehops.smugmug.com/Motorcycle ... q&lb=1&s=A

N.

[cbx6ss]

Nils,
Is the 11.932MM dimension the issue for a match?
If so, what is the issue with going 12.0MM?


Could one of the other parts (retainer, center collar) be shaved to accommodate (2X 12.0mm)?
(Open this pic in another window to see the whole pic)

/r
Brad

[NobleHops]

Brad the short answer is "I don't know". I will PM JimJim and see if he will remind us of what he learned, but I do believe that 12mm is the nominal size of these, and there is no equivalent. As I recall (my memory sucks, beware) there was a thinner bearing that had the correct ID/OD and the shoulder. But look closely if you didn't already notice - these are shouldered 'thrust' bearings and they are installed 'back to back' so to speak, so those thicker inner races are touching when assembled and carrying the torque of the assembly without binding at the outer race. Any bearing you try to swap in has to have that shoulder, or perhaps a machined spacer to perform that task and make up the needed width.

I'm out of my depth opining any further - maybe one of the smart guys will pipe up, but I'll just finish by saying that if you sorted out a good solution and made a bunch of kits, I'd buy one to throw in my spares.

N.

[NobleHops]

Brad - last thought. It was fast and cheap to press those apart and put in new balls. My races were fine, showed no damage.

N.

[daves79x]

Guys - remember in all this that those bearings do not have to perform at near the duty of a normal installation. The swingarm does not rotate through it's small arc at a great speed and that's all the bearings have to support (plus the loading of the torque to the rear wheel to some extent). If the bearings are at all serviceable, but not perfect, I'd just clean them up and reuse - it's not a wheel bearing.

Dave

[cbx6ss]

im thinking a nice tight rear-end... might be a factor in solving the high speed sweeper wobble... what i took out is very sloppy. just trying to get my head around whats going on in this assembly. why different bearings from one side to the other? why a matched pair of ball bearings instead of a roller or double row ball bearing? so many questions...
/r
Brad

[NobleHops]

ISTR that loose engine hanger bolts can be causative of handling ills. Am I hallucinating that? Might be something to check. How's the steering head? Wheel bearings?

N.

[cbx6ss]

im thinking a nice tight rear-end... might be a factor in solving the high speed sweeper wobble... what i took out is very sloppy. just trying to get my head around whats going on in this assembly. why different bearings from one side to the other? why a matched pair of ball bearings instead of a roller or double row ball bearing? so many questions...
/r
Brad

Still thinking about this as I browse alternate sources. Mostly radial load from the chain side from acceleration/decel. But that's the seemingly lighter-duty needle bearing. The tandem roller pair are opposite the chain. How would we state the level of thrust load in comparison? Thoughts?

[EMS]

Considerable wobble at speeds is in most cases caused by issues with the steering neck. I would carefully check this area first.

[Larry Zimmer]

I'd go with Dave's comment on this one. Some further comments, needle bearings can carry a stout load for their size. And, that's a good one here with caged rollers (needles). Regarding the ball bearings on the other side, they will seem 'loose' when you take them out; because, they are single row angular contact bearings. The looseness/clearance in the bearings will be tightened when the end 'pivot collars' are torqued. The arrangement of the ball bearings, then, serves as both a right side support and as thrust bearings for side loads into the swing arm. This particular arrangement is a bit unique. I'm not certain why Honda chose it. Overall, it was probably the easiest to use to establish a lash-free arrangement with minimal machining and no-set installation and servicing.

[cbx6ss]

Larry, thank you kindly for your insight. I am relieved to know that the "slop" will be reduced when torqued. I regret to admit I have not found any like-replacements for the ball bearings (yet). I DID however score qty (10) of the needle bearings, and will be happy to share a few at cost if anyone's interested. And, Nils thank you for directing my attention to the collared inner race in the first place. I had not looked close enough and "ASSumed" they were symmetrical. This and the assembly instructions in the manual support the angular contact design. Well, sort of... Ref page 14-7, The directions state "drive one bearing into place with the numbers facing towards the swing arm center." That will put the collar side of the bearing facing out, as the numbers are on the non-collar side. "Install the second ball bearing with its numbers facing out." That would face the second bearing collar against the first. However page 14-16 (bottom) shows a drawing apparently showing the collars on the outside. Regardless of the side the numbers are on, don't we want the collar side of the bearings facing away from each other as in the drawing? Amateur Mechanic 101; "always note the order of dis-assembly, better yet take pictures, to ensure correct reassembly." I obviously did not. Operators are standing by...
/r
B