80 swingarm replacement bearings

[cbx6ss]

Oh, and by the way, Mike and Nils, at assembly, I will pay close attention to the steering head and engine mount details to eliminate those as wobble cause (is that like a CBX Harlem Shake??).
/r
B

[Larry Zimmer]

Brad, I'll be honest, I don't know which side the numbers are for the ball bearings. However, you will want to assemble them so that they look like the picture on 14-16. When everything is installed, the right side pivot collar will rest against the inner race of the ball bearing on the 'outside'. The pivot collar of the left side will tighten against the 'distance collar' which will bear against the inner race piece (collar) in the needle bearing which will bear against the inner spacer which will bear against the inner race of the other ball bearing. This will, then, preload the two ball bearings against each other for a zero lash condition and take all lateral thrust loads of the swingarm. (I know, sounds like and old song!) If I can figure out how to sketch this and post it, I'll do that.

I don't think you will find these ball bearings anywhere. Best I can determine, they must have been a custom job for Honda for this application. The needle bearing appears to be a 'shelf' item. Note what the book says about installing the needle bearing by pressing against the side with the numbers. DO that. (Numbers to face out.) The non-number side of the needle bearing shell is soft. It could deform when you push it in causing the needles to not roll very well. The side with the numbers is hardened. It can take the pushing and pounding. That's about all the 'good stuff' for now. Hope it helps.

[cbx6ss]

Larry
Thank you for your info. I got everything you said. Still question. The bearing inner races have a collar-side and a non-collared side like the drawing. Trying to confirm if the bearing inner race collars face out or against each other? The drawing shows out but this appears to conflict with the written instructions (seen this before?). I'm inclined to go with the pic in agreement with you as that relates to design vs which way the letters face which is subjective. Collars out would seem to accept (contain) the lateral thrust load within the bearing array.
Brad

[Larry Zimmer]

Brad, hope this might help. I did not show the ends of the through-bolt (called pivot bolt) where it pulls up against the peg hangars, etc. The side loads of the swingarm are reacted against the 'pivot collars' which are threaded into the frame. The radial loads are supported through the pivot bolt into the needle bearing journal and the ball bearing journals. As I mentioned above, I don't know where the numbers are on the bearings. Just that the inner races of the ball bearings need to be oriented as shown, both in my sketch and the book (both are the same). Note that things in the sketch are not to any scale. They just represent the functional relationship of all the parts.
One other thought I might give: when assembling the ball bearing retainer, I would apply a bit of blue loctite to the threads of the retainer. The book just calls for torquing and staking. That's OK. My experience with this type of staking from my past other life is that it isn't perfect!



P.S. To see the entire sketch, just click on it. Click the browser 'back' arrow to return to the Forum. Let me know if any problem viewing it.

[cbx6ss]

Larry,
Thank you for taking the time to draw the assembly up! That's it exactly! Here's the collars in your drawing:


And here are both sides of the bearings.


I think I have it now!!
I owe you one.
/r
Brad

[Larry Zimmer]

Interesting, Brad. Looking at the photos you have of the bearings, it would appear that the book is incorrect with the statement about how the numbers should go. The picture in the shop manual looks correct to me. However, if the bearings were to be installed with the numbers as described at the top of page 14-17, the races would be backwards from the picture. (And, from my sketch.)

I'd go with the picture on 14-16 and my sketch. One other check you can make -- if you put the spacer and a bearing onto the bolt, which arrangement gives the best match-up of the end of the spacer to the inner race? I'm betting the arrangement like 14-16 and my sketch. It's the only way I can see it to work correctly.

One other comment: if you are using torque wrenches and have the proper tools, just follow the torques in the book. If not, just set the left pivot collar to 'good snug'. Don't honk on it like a lug nut; but, don't be afraid to tighten it. Those bearings can take a fair preload. (And, as Dave said, above, these aren't spinning bearings.) As the book says, install the right 'pivot collar' first. That one, just git er tight. And, the pivot bolt, just make it tight!

[cbx6ss]

If the bearings are at all serviceable, but not perfect, I'd just clean them up and reuse - it's not a wheel bearing.
Dave

You were right Dave! (Sue LOVES when I tell her that). The replacement needle bearing came and the dry fit seems fine. Now for a little spit and polish of the swing arm, pack a little grease in all the bearings and bushings, and I should have a rolling frame this weekend... Next the engine assembly... I'd like to say it currently looks like this

But that would be an over statement...
/r
Brad

[Larry Zimmer]

Sorry, Brad. I don't have a sketch for that!!

[cbx6ss]

And another thing...
Page 14-14 of the service manual states:

Standard spec for:
Collar OD 15.000mm - 15.052mm
Service Limit is 15.158mm

and Standard spec for:
Bushing ID 14.966mm - 14.984mm
Service Limit 14.958mm

Wouldn't the OD wear to a smaller dimension, and the ID wear to a larger dimension? If so then shouldn't an OD service limit be smaller than the spec range, and the ID service limit be larger than the spec range?
Just sayin...
/r
B

[Larry Zimmer]

Brad, check my post of Feb 25. The book numbers are reversed! viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8174.

[cbx6ss]

Brad, check my post of Feb 25. The book numbers are reversed! viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8174.

Larry,
I forgot about your post. What you said... Looks like we are in violent agreement.
Thank you.
/r
B

[Larry Zimmer]

Just thought I'd put up a sketch of the linkage joints of the prolink for anyone who might wonder how they function. What is significant is that the joints do not pivot on the bolts. The bolts hold the seals and the 'collar' (center sleeve) together to move as one piece in the end of one link rotating in the bushings of the end of another link. The collars are approximately 1mm longer than the dimension over the assembled bushings. Notice that the seals are a double lip design with one lip engaging the bushing shoulder, the other lip running on the shoulder of the link. While it would seem that only one lip should be needed (riding on the shoulder of the link) the double lip serves as a back-up. The joint at the swingarm is similar; except, there is no shoulder on the bore in the swingarm. The bushing shoulder for the swingarm is twice the thickness of those in the links. When assembling these joints, GREASE EVERYTHING with a moly grease. Be certain to pack the seals.

Note that, as with the swingarm bearing arrangement, above, the sketch is not to any particular scale. It's just representative of relationship of parts to each other. (Click on the sketch to see all of it.)

[Samelak]

I'm reviving this thread since I need to replace my 1980 swingarm bearings. Does anyone know the outside diameter of the bearings? I haven't tried removing mine yet so I cannot get a measurement.

[NobleHops]

Lee,

Let me save you a bunch of time and aggravation and tell you to give up trying to source a generic replacement. They don't exist outside of Honda NOS, and if you find them, (Remotion in Japan), they will be stupid-expensive. I spent hours searching online and made trips to bearing houses, and Jim-Jim did too. I have all those measurements, you can have them, they will do you no good.

You have three choices WRT refurbing those ball bearings:

Pay stupid money to Remotion or maybe Louis, (although I doubt he has them) for NOS. The needle bearing on the other side CAN be found, last I looked.

Take them apart, and replace the balls within. Regrease and reinstall. That's what I did. You can measure those balls and they can be replaced.

Buy a used Prolink swingarm with less miles on it than yours, and extract those bearings, reinstall them in yours.


I would be delighted if you came up with another better alternative, but I doubt you will.

N.

[Samelak]

My bearings apear to be in good shape, but I am worried they may break when I press them out to powder coat the swing arm. I guess I could just remove the seals and grease while leaving the bearings in place for the powde rcoat. 400 degrees isn't too hot to damage the bearings if they are left in place. I'll just need to regrease it before installing the swing arm back onto the bike.