CBX Z Ignition power Circuit


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NobleHops
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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by NobleHops »

daves79x wrote:NAPA stores have really tidy ones right on the shelf. PICO brand, part number 5590PT. 12 volt and 30-40amp depending on wiring and application.

Dave
Awesome Dave, thanks. I will pick one up today, as I intend to tear into that wiring harness swap this afternoon, and this is the right time to tackle this for certain.

N.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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Kool_Biker
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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by Kool_Biker »

Nils

This is the exact same Panasonic relay I have used for this, and other similar motorcycle projects, and have only positive things to say. Very happy indeed.
Clearly, there are many similar ones in the open market.
Aris
NobleHops wrote:Nevermind Tony, I found where you posted it prior, and if you don't mind, I'll repost it here:
herdygerdy wrote:
Jebbysan wrote:Where in the heck do I get some of those slick flat Relays like Tony is showing.....
I looked for 30 minutes on Digi-Key and Allied electronics and nothing.....

Jebby
Here you go Jebby, http://www.cycleterminal.com,

Part No. MR20-N-5 for the relay, and Part No. TE250 for the base.

http://www.cycleterminal.com/accessory-relays.html

And relay pinouts here, image from http://www.cycleterminal.com. I have found these guys really great to deal with, fast service, reasonable prices and OEM Japanese very high quality products. Love their stuff.

Image

Cheers..Tony
Aris Hadjiaslanis
ICOA # 6309
Berkshire, Windsor

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NobleHops
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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by NobleHops »

Thanks Aris!
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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herdygerdy
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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by herdygerdy »

Was in NZ for work for a few days this week and spent some time with my buddy Brent (aka 'Captain' on the CB1100F site). We discussed at length about ignition etc. and just wanted to post some of that chat here, more to get people thinking about possibilities and alternatives.

In any engine, EVERYTHING happens (or is supposed to happen) in relation to the position of the crankshaft itself as it rotates through the combustion cycle. This includes camshaft rotation and position, valve opening and closing and when the spark occurs at the plug. The more precisely you can make these events happen in relation to crankshaft position, the better the engine will run and the more consistent power it will produce.

On a CBX engine, unfortunately, the spark auto advance which triggers the spark event as it passes the pulser unit, is connected not directly to the crankshaft, but to the jack shaft (or primary shaft by another name). And the jack shaft is connected to the crankshaft by the very flexible toothed primary chain, which is subject to wear and tear, esp. as the mileage stacks up and the engine is constantly having the throttle opened and closed, making the primary chain come under load (tighten up), then off load (release) as the throttle is opened and closed.

As the primary chain wears over the life of the engine, and probably the hydraulic pressure of the primary chain tensioner also reduces, this slack in the chain MUST allow the jack shaft to "move around" or 'rotate' slightly in direct relation to the crankshaft itself - ie; it is NOT fixed. And because the jack shaft position (in relation to the crankshaft) changes, then so must the ignition timing events also move around in relation to the crankshaft.

Clearly the very best place from which to trigger the ignition events would be directly off the crankshaft itself in some way. Have not yet done any research on this, but am thinking the LH end of the crankshaft may be a possibility. Given the increasingly small triggering mechanisms available today, perhaps a nice CNC milled spacer plate between the LH crank end cover and the crankcase may provide sufficient space to install one. Of course how to precisely set up the trigger on the crankshaft is another issue to be solved, but just thought I would put it out there for minds far greater and skilled than mine to mull over and also share their thoughts.

Cheers..Tony 8)

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by Rockosmith »

I have a hard starting when cold '82 with Dyna system installed. Grounding plug to engine while cranking reveals a puny yellow spark. I expected a nice substantial blue one. I too discovered only 9.3 volts going to the coils. My question is where to pick up the 12v 'trigger' for the relay? The black/white original wire going to the coil 12v+? That should still allow all normal functions, kill switch etc. Right?

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by daves79x »

Double-click Aris' circuit diagram earlier in this thread and you'll see how it's done.

Dave

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by NobleHops »

...but the short answer is "yes" the black/white wire is the one you want. I did this mod and have full power to the coils now, also with the Dyna setup. IMO even if you do this, you could spend a fruitful rainy day going through all your electrical connections with some deoxit and some dielectric grease, renew all those connections and in the process track down the source of all that resistance. It's a good idea, and not just for the sake of the voltage you get to your coils.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by Rockosmith »

Thanks guys. I just needed confirmation on my thinking. I will spend a day cleaning all connections/grounds.

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by swarrans »

I wish I could find an outlet here in the UK for those Panasonic relays! I am about to get my first CBX and as it seems difficult to start I will check out the voltage drop to the coils first. Mind you it has a slow warm up so i guess its more likely to be carb related?...

Great technical resource here - many thanks

Simon

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by EMS »

All CBXes equipped with the vacuum fuel valve are difficult to start. What do you have, simon?

daves79x
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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by daves79x »

You are on the right track about the carbs being some of the problem. They should be gone through completely and if right, the bike will start much better. The relay coil mod is very worthwhile also, just make sure all your electrical connections are good and solid. Herdygerdy here sells kits already made up for the relay mod for a good price. You may want to check it out.

Dave

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by swarrans »

Thanks chaps. I will have the white 82 naked pro link model shown in my avatar - the current owner is getting the carbs looked at by the dealer before I take delivery. It is a US model and has done a very low mileage but the UK owner rode it last year and it went really well but did take longer to warm up than his other CBX,s (he has 4!). I haven't even got a shop manual yet but I presume it is possible that not all 6 chokes are working?

Simon

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by swarrans »

I've tried to send Herdygerdy a PM but it just seems to go into my outbox and not get sent - is this because I am a new member?
I am interested in buying one of his ignition circuit looms and I have a friend in Sydney at the moment who might be able to pick it up for me!

Cheers

simon

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by herdygerdy »

Hi Simon,

PM sent & both msgs rec'd AOK!

Tks..Tony

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Re: CBX Z Ignition power Circuit

Post by EMS »

swarrans wrote:I've tried to send Herdygerdy a PM but it just seems to go into my outbox and not get sent - is this because I am a new member?

simon
When you send a pm, it goes into your outbox. It stays in there until the addressee reads it, then it goes to "sent messages". This is a nice feature to show you, if your message was received.

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