Fuel injected twin turbo 79 project

[Bob Buehler]

For those of you that know me you might remember this project started sometime back around 1995 (if my memory is correct). Actually more like maybe 1989 when Tim Ware had a rally and gave away a stage III dyno ject kit. That began my modification work. Actually the seed was planted in 1982 when I saw an ad for a twin turbo kit for the CBX in a bike magazine. That has sat in my brain since then. I started modifying with the stage III kit and a six into six exhaust. I gave up on the exhaust but kept the stage III kit and eventually installed it on a 79. Then I put an 1100F front and back end on the 79 but was not satisfied with that and sold it when I found some FZR parts. With the help of some great machinist friends I got the bike together and installed the stage III kit and a DG six into one exhaust. I spent so much time at the rallies pulling the carbs and rejetting them that I got the name Cman because I forever asking others for their ideas about how to change the carbs. Many drunken nights with a head light on outside a hotel room changing jet lead to a motor that eventually dyno tested at 104 hp. We really don't know why it ran so strong since I have never check the motors displacement or internals .
About 1999 a member told me about an original RB racing twin turbo kit that was advertised for sale. The owner purchased it (probably the only one ever sold) but never had it installed. I traded him a bike for the kit and the project was born. I spent a great deal of time trying to get the kit to work right but it was so poorly engineered that I never got it to make boost or run well. During that time I ran across photo of a fuel injected CBX build in Europe. I did some searching and found Kersten Vogel who ad moved to Australia. He offered to build my a system but did not want to deal with the turbos. This must have been around 2002. It took a couple of years for him to complete and during that time I talked him into building the entire exhaust to hand the turbos up front. The exchange rate at the time was 2 to 1 so I got all the work done for $5k. It took about 5 years. He had the entire system installed and running great on his bike and then sent it all to me.

I installed it on my 82 with a stock motor just to see how it worked and brought it to one of the rallies. I am sure some will remember seeing it. I had some issues with the motor not wanting to start and believed I had carbon fouled the valves from the having the initial twin turbo set on the motor. I left the bike to sit for several more years while I worked on building the turbo motor. The system came off the 82 in in 2008 and sat in boxes until now. I build much of the motor up at one of the rallies and had the valves redone maybe 4 years ago and the motor sat waiting for me to have time to pull it all back together.

Well life has been very busy but I finally had the time and place to pull it all together this last month and I am very close to finally firing it the system up on the modified 79 rolling chaise.

I am not sure how many photos I can post but I filled my gallery with photos and posted some to the general gallery so I'll see what I can add. I follow up with more photos and let everyone who is interested know how things are going.

I have to say, trying to figure out how to put this puzzle back together after so many years has been challenging. I am at the point of plugging in all the wires and my last issue is the coil ignite modulus. I am not sure and cannot remember if I even need them. I have had many of these issues over the last month. Unfortunately I have lost contact with the builder Kersten Vogel but I think I found him on facebook and Linkedin but it does not appear that he frequents either site often. If anyone reads this and know him please forward my interest in speaking with him again. It would be a big help at this point.

So I am hoping the system fires up and I hoping my motor rebuild was good.

So here is some photos for those interested. (so this is not working, I guess I have to go back and read the post about attaching images again LOL)

[Bob Buehler]

[Bob Buehler]

I'll post more later, it is late and this is not that simple LOL

[Bob Buehler]

[daves79x]

Bob:

I recognize the old girl! At least the chassis. So you're putting the set-up from the '82 on your '79? Cool! hope you meet with a bit better success!

Dave

[Bob Buehler]

Hay Dave do you think the old ignighters are still needed? I have computer hooked up to the coils and the system has its own optical crank position sensor in place of the mechanicl pulse generator. I cannot remember if they are no longer needed. Now that I am thinking about it. I think not since there is no system signalling them to triger a coil pulse. What do you think?

[Ringnalda]

Looking good Bob!

Still get out to Columbus for Horseshows anymore?

Can we use some of this as a part#1 for a CBXpress story please?

Jan

[Bob Buehler]

Of coarse and I get to columbus now and then since my whole family lives in dublin. I will let you know next time I will bein town.
out with the old and in with the new

[daves79x]

Can't say for sure, but all the aftermarket ignitions I know of provide timing and spark from the unit under the pulser cover. Others here might know more.

Dave

[steve murdoch icoa #5322]

First it was Mike using a forklift while working on his bike.
Now it's Bob using a hoist to raise and lower a frame onto an engine.
I have been saving pennies for a jack and lift table....time to start going in a different direction.

Bob when you get a chance could you also give us some details on the suspension upgrades you have performed?

[80 cbx dude #6216]

Looking great Bob! can't wait to see some more pix!!-Mike

[Bob Buehler]

First it was Mike using a forklift while working on his bike.
Now it's Bob using a hoist to raise and lower a frame onto an engine.
I have been saving pennies for a jack and lift table....time to start going in a different direction.

Bob when you get a chance could you also give us some details on the suspension upgrades you have performed?

Now that I think about it, the engine dolly works great if you are just lowering the engine with the bike and the dolly on the floor. I believe you can roll the engine sideways right out from under the bike depending on how much is still attached. When you are working on a lift, that is another story. No shoving it in from the side unless you can talk your wife into picking up one side of the engine (the new gal is one strong womanl but I was not about ask her to try and pick up this beast). Actually, I don't think I was real keen on the idea of picking it up either LOL.

So lifting the frame or actually dropping the lift away from the suspended frame was mandatory. What you cannot see is the four 2x4 support columns around the lift. I was worried that I would pull down the garage roof rafters. Not to much of a problem with this bike but getting under my Vstar 1300 while it was hanging from the ceiling was scary.

It was a bit of a bitch getting the motor up on the lift with the dam bike hanging there and then trying to get a jack under the engine dolly. I recommend at least enough ground clearance under the dolly for what ever lift you have. Live and learn.

As far as the suspension modifications. The front and back end are off an FZR 1000. I think when Mike Brown bought his FZR we sat around thinking about how we could get that great rolling gear on a CBX. Well a couple of years later I found parts guy that had everything for a reasonable price. I actually bought two setups. One is maybe 88 or 98 and the other might be 98 or 90. Can't remember but the fork tube diameter and rotor diameter were different. I think for the front end, all I had to do was swap out the steering stem from the triple clamps. That was what made is so easy. We used everything except the handle bars. We had to make up clamps that bolted down through the top triple clamp. Having longer fork tubes made would have been a good idea then you could get more clearance and maybe use the FZR clip on bars. I think at the time you could get 40 mm tubes but not 41 or something like that. This made the other front end a better choice if you are willing to have longer tubes made up. At the time I don't think there were many long upsidedown forks out there. Now a days I think you can much more to choose from. Any of the adventure tour bikes front ends might be a good option.

The photos show the rear end work. The bracing and mounting point for the shock was critical and I had a really good frame builder think that one through and come up with what he did. I think we left him Mikes FZR and my frame and parts. The width of the swing arm was perfect with out a couple of washers in the dust caps. I may have had to drill out the frame or may already have been done for the 1100F swing arm. I don't remember drilling it but maybe the frame guy did it for me.

the swing are is so wide that the passenger peg bolts don't clear so I left them off. The stock exhaust probably would not bolt on either. I am about to put in some inserts to bolt right into the side plates for this exhaust since a bolt or nut on the inside would hit the swing arm. The rear brake cylinder is from the FZR and a special plate was made to mount it.

The smaller diameter rear wheel changed the gearing so I tried to put a smaller rear sprocket on but the chain would have rubbed on the swing arm. I ended up with a one tooth larger front sprocket that just barely fits. It had to be shimmed out and it also had to be cut and welded. No small mater. Not sure how or what I am going to do when I have to replace it. We got a sprocket for a harley and cut it or cut the CBX one and welded the two together to make what I needed. Thank god for machinist friends. I could not have done this without the help I got from some very good mechanics and fabricators.

It dose work great.

[Bob Buehler]

I turned it over today and it had no spark. I suspect the igniter module is the problem. It could have been damaged by the alternator putting out to high a voltage. I am guessing here. So M&W Ignitions out of Australia no longer makes this induction type ignighter and said try talking to the computer maker (Wolf3D). Unfortunately that guy is very hard to get ahold of.

So is there anyone out there that is familiar with aftermarket fuel injection and ignition computers as well as after market ignighters.

The nearest Wolf3D dealer/expert has a shop in Queens, NY. That is my next option.

[NobleHops]

Bob, you seem to have plenty of challenges to entertain us and yourself with without beating your head against an obsolete, undocumented, unsupported ignition. A system like C5 will do away with the spark units, and you could program custom advance curves. That would seem a very worthy upgrade to the core, and a better use of your time and effort.

[Bob Buehler]

I think I am going to have to change the coil igniter as it is but the ignition map is in the computer so it is controlling advance and may be modified by any number of other parameters.

So my igniter is signaled by the computer via four wires if I am understanding how it's set up. (that is one of todays jobs, figuring out just what the starting configuration is)

So how is the system you are referring to controlled. I have no problem changing out the coils and igniter module since I think I have to change something out anyways.

I guess what is more important is, where are the dealers and can they provide technical help wiring the new system into the existing computer.