Fuel injected twin turbo 79 project

[NobleHops]

Holy smokes, that things looks the business. Very cool, and good on ya for persevering and getting it done.

You might try one last thing before you throw in the towel on that ignition, and that is measuring the voltage you're getting at the coils with the ignition on, and see if you're losing much. I just installed a relay and I have something like .2V difference now between what the battery measures and what the coils are getting. If you're losing 2V or so, then a relay to power the coils might be just the ticket.

Just a thought.

Best,

N.

[Bob Buehler]

I'll check that. When it comes to ignition systems I am kind of lost. If I remember correctly, I checked the voltage at each coil terminal and got voltage on both sides. Where it was coming from I really had no idea but I figure that some how it is broken at the appropriate time that that is when you get a spark. So is one side or the other always powered from the battery while the other side is the one that is regularly broken.

I recall checking a charge time of 3.8 milseconds. So what side of the coil does this charge time affect. There was also a setting for discharge time I think and that was set to 1 milsecond.

[Bob Buehler]

I have 12.3 volts at the battery and 11.5 volts at the coil. I'm going try making up a jumper line out 14 guage wire to go from the battery to coils. The new system has a " 12v" line connected to the coils but I suspect it is comming from the ECU which is powered by one of two power inputs. One line is directly wired to the battery and there is a second line that goes to a "switched" power. I tied that line in to the rear running lights. That line could just be powering a relay for the main power. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the system but it should be easy enough to test.

[steve murdoch icoa #5322]

Bob, i mean this as a compliment...your bike is a brute.
Now that you have the photos sorted out, time for a ride video.

If your local Pa. electrics guy does not work out, you might consider talking to Paul from C5.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8617&hilit=ignitions

[80 cbx dude #6216]

Bob, Thanks for posting some pix! Wow, you're bike is SWEET! -Mike

[Bob Buehler]

I did take a video with my phone and posted it on my face book page because it was so easy to do. I don't think there is away to post a video on here. And I am not sure how to post a link to my face book page but I give it a try. I have enough problems with face book and posting photos to this site. I did not want to even try the video. LOL.

So I left all the wiring as it was but ran a new 10 gauge wire from the battery to the out side of the right most coil. This where the ECU 12 volt line connects and then it branches off to each of the other two coils. Interestingly, when I completed the connection of the battery ground the entire bike electrical system turned on. I think I must have been sending power back down the existing 12 volt line from the ECU. I should go out and disconnect that line and see what turns off. While I was connecting the ground I disconnected it once and the coil must have discharged because I got a nice woosh out the exhaust. Gee you think there might be a little un burnt fuel in there.

So maybe someone that knows this stuff better than me can explain something. When you turn your bike on we energize a 12 volt line basically from the battery to the right side of each of the coils. The left side of the coils has the trigger line attached and I'm not sure if its energized by that line periodically or not. I checked the voltage at the coil I attached the direct line to and it now had same voltage as the battery. I have small jumpers made up about 1-2 inches that lead from the pin connection on the Dyno S? coils to the spade connections on the wire harness. I think they are the problem. I checked the voltage at the other two coils and they were still 11.4 or something. The block connector and wires that come off the coils is not connected to anything any more. I think it is only serving to link the 12 volt side of each of the coils since the ECU 12 volt line plugs into the right most line. There are new lines from the ECU that connect to the right side of each coil which I assume are the trigger lines or the in other words the line that tell the coil when to discharge and produce a spark.

I think its time to do away with the little jumper lead and make a nice heavy bridge line between all three coils. I should also check that 12 volt line coming out of the ECU to the coils and see if it also has low voltage.

I'll go out and get some pictures of this mess if you are following along.

[Bob Buehler]

So for anyone that thinks they can offer some advice, here are some photos.

This photo shows the line I ran from the Battery to the left side of the right coil. I did this because I assumed the coils were getting there voltage from the red wire from the ECU that said 12 volt from coil.
The photo below shows this wire and how it tied in to the spade connector of the coil. The photo also show the little jumpers that were made up to go from the coils that have pins to the wire harness that has spade connections. The coils are not getting there right side charge from that line from the ECU. It is coming from the stock igniter module. It was interesting that with the line from the ECU disconnected, the bike light still came on when I connected the line from the right side of the coil directly to the battery. The ECU did not energize since I did not here the fuel pump come on. I did not check the lights on the computer. So like Noble suggested, it appear that a direct line to the coils from the battery needs to be run through a relay other wise the bike or parts of it are always going to be on.

I checked both sides of the coils without the ECU line to the coils plugged in (it is labeled 12volt from coils). The photo kind of shows this. The photo also shows the jumper line that I thought were causing some loss of voltage but with the bike on I had 11.4 volts at the spade connector plugged into the jumper and 11.4 at the coil. So the coils are not energized from the new line. They are energized from the existing black lead from the trigger module. All three coils are connected by this line. I think this is the line I need to replace.

I though the original block connector to the coils was not used but I was mistaken. The photo below shows the four wires from the stock trigger module are plugged and apparently energizing the right side of each coil. There are three wires that went to the left side of each coil that are not used. I did not check to see if they were energized but since they are not plugged in I guess it does not matter.

The photo below shows the new wires from the ECU that plug into the left side of each coil. These lines also showed 11.4 volts when the bike was turned on.

Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it, I guess it makes sense that the left side shows voltage since it is just the other end of the "coil" of wire that is in there.

So after thinking this through it still makes sense in my mind to run a new power to the coils and see if I cannot get the same voltage at the coils that I have at the battery. That brings up the question of, can I then disconnect the existing power that is coming from the trigger module.

And here is an odd observation. The lead from the ECU to the power side of the coil showed 10.3 volts even when it was disconnected. This make no sense to me since I had come to the conclusion that it was taking power from the coil and using to energize something. So without it connected, why is it showing voltage. What purpose does it serve?

[NobleHops]

OK, you need to disconnect that always-on lead from the battery, as you are energizing your ignition and coils all the time when you do that. It's great to have that powered straight form the battery, but it needs to be done through a relay that is triggered by the ignition and kill switches. The black/white wire is your 'signal' wire to trip the relay, and the other side of the relay would have that wire you ran routed through it, switched by the relay. So disconnect that for starters.

Your battery is weak, at rest fully charged should read 12.6 V or so. Charge it fully before you delve into this and see how the bike starts and behaves. If it won't hold a charge, then leave it on a tender all the time so it's topped-off as you work, but really, it ought to be replaced if it won't hold a charge or we will be chasing our tails with this.

[Bob Buehler]

Thanks for the advice. That is a good idea using the black and white wire to activate the relay. I was going to just tie into the line I previously tied into running to the tail running light.

The battery usually is on a tender or I throw 10 amps at it if I get impatient. I have drained it down a dozen or so times already trying to start this thing. I'll see with the charge is when it comes off the tender this morning. It was 13.5 volts immediately after removing the tender. I turned the bike on and it dropped to 12.1 -2 volts. Had 11.2 or so at the coils.

I have brought the truck over a couple times and jumped from one of its battery to the bike battery. Then is showed about 13.2 volts. So maybe that battery is not up to the job. It is also sitting all the way back near the tail light.

[Bob Buehler]

Well I would love to say that rewiring the coils fixed the problem but I don't think so. I will try a clean set of plugs next. I did get 12.45 volts at each coil so that part I know is ok. At this point I am ready for some new coil over plugs. I just have no idea what to use or how to wire them in. If it is just connecting the two leads that are on the coils now, that would be great.

Anyone have a suggestion

[Gearheadgregg]

Well I would love to say that rewiring the coils fixed the problem but I don't think so. I will try a clean set of plugs next. I did get 12.45 volts at each coil so that part I know is ok. At this point I am ready for some new coil over plugs. I just have no idea what to use or how to wire them in. If it is just connecting the two leads that are on the coils now, that would be great.

Anyone have a suggestion

did you do a Load test on that battery ?

[Gearheadgregg]

did you look at a spark while turning the motor over , Blue spark ? Yellow spark ?

[Bob Buehler]

No load test and no I have not tried to look at the spark but I will.

[Bob Buehler]

So I did some reading and decided before I decide to replace the coils or some other part of the ignition system I should check this one out more closely.

I purchased an HEI ignition tester from my local NAPA store. The photo below shows the business end. It is basically a spark plug with out the wrap over ground electrode. You attaché it to the spark plug wire or to the coil and basically hold onto it with the ground side of a set of jumper cables attached to the ground side of the battery.

I got nothing on all six wires. Shit. So I pulled one of the Dyno S coils and put a stock coil back on. I also had to change some wire connectors. I still got nothing. At that point I decided there might be something wrong with the tester.
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Has anyone seen one of these things before and if so was there an obvious center electrode running up through the insulator. I kind of figured this did not look right so I ran a piece of wire down the center leaving a small portion above the insulator. Low and behold now I get a huge spark jumping from the center to the rim on every coil.

I called the shop and asked them to order me another one to see if there really is something missing on this one.

On a good note, with a fresh set of plugs the bike fired up and idled. I leaned it out some and maybe I have improved my ignition system enough to get reliable starts out of it. We will see in the morning after is sits all night. I still think I need to figure out just how good or bad this system is. I hooked up a test light (LED) each of the coils but for some reason it burned out. Not sure why since it was recommended from a good source.

I am going to read up on the S5. Tomorrow the O2 sensor is going on or at least the bung will get welded onto the exhaust pipe.

[80 cbx dude #6216]

Bob, ask the Napa store how many kilovolts that tester is designed to check. It may be to high and that's why it didn't work.-Mike