Fuel injected twin turbo 79 project

[Bob Buehler]

So the good news is that I figured out my ignition problem. Apparently I still needed to use or plug in two of the block connectors from the stock ignite-rs. The brown block connector which looks like a ground and or something else and the 6 pin block to the coils, of which only one (the ground?) was still connected to the coils. So that got me some spark. With a little playing around with the "start fuel settings and " starting ignition timing" and a couple of other settings, similar to a choke, it fired up. I cannot tell you how happy that made me.

So the system still works, I was able to read the fuel map on the laptop and the motor rebuild actually worked.

The problem now is that I am leaking (which is a bit of an understatement) oil every where. I think guy I had rebuild the head did not torque the head down. I am going to call and see if he remembers telling me that I had to do that. I find it hard to believe he would have had any reason to not do that. I also remember checking the torque on the cam retainer bolts and I think I remember checking the head bolts but it is the only explanation I can come up with. I hope some others will have some insight after I describe all the symptoms.

First, a significant drip someplace possibly between the head and block just left of cylinder #4.

A ton of burnt oil smoke coming out the exhaust. Appears to be a lot of oil coming out the exhaust and I noticed oil weeping out between the header and the turbo. The oil drip could also be an exhaust leak at the at cylinder #4.

This is an interesting one. I noticed oil dripping on the front fender. It was coming out the tachometer cable.

I also found a significant drip coming out of the crank case seal near the back of the motor.

I did not find any oil in the intake track so oil does not appear to be leaking from the turbo into the intake system.

The plugs are black and slightly oily, not as wet as would have thought but it only ran for a total of about 5 minutes a couple of times.

I did not notice a lot of oil smoke or coming out of the crank case breather line but I did not watch it while the motor was running. It did not show any evidence of over pressured crank case but oil leak near the back of the case suggests something is not right. We put the cases together at one of the rallies and I feel confident that we sealed it well. Why oil is leaking back there is hard to understand from a leaking head gasket with out over pressuring the crank case.

The motor has a copper head gasket.

Any thoughts appreciated since if its not a loose head, I am baffled as to what the problem could be.

[NobleHops]

I have heard tale of seals re-sealing after a bit of use, coaxed sometimes with a bit of kerosene in the motor oil.

The tach seal is easy, Tims CBX will sell you a kit of three parts, a washer, oring and seal, that will take care of that.

Are you certain it's not your clutch cover that's leaking? Or possibly one of the oil line connections on either side?

Cam chain tensioner is between 3-4, is that in good shape?

Great news that it fired up!

N.

[Bob Buehler]

The volume of smoke in the exhaust is the most telling that it is not just a bad seal her or there. The mechanic that put the head on said he thinks he would have torqued the head down but it could used retightening. He did not thing a leaking head gasket could cause that much of a problem.

I was so hoping he did not torque the head but I that does not appear to be the problem. It could be bad rings but that is a lot of blow by and oil burning.

I think we are going to have to try running the motor with out the turbos once I get into the valve cover and do a compression test and leak down test.

[EMS]

A stupid question: Have you taken the oil filler plug out while the motor is running to see if you are pressurizing the crankcase excessively?

[Bob Buehler]

Well I did just find a #1 cork down in the breather port LOL. opps. It was flush and painted black. I remember taping over it when I painted the top case. That might solve a lot. I am also checking the turbo oil scavenging pump.

[NobleHops]

Well I did just find a #1 cork down in the breather port LOL. opps. It was flush and painted black. I remember taping over it when I painted the top case. That might solve a lot. I am also checking the turbo oil scavenging pump.

Yeah, that would indeed explain a lot of these symptoms

[Bob Buehler]

Wow what a difference a crankcase breath makes. No more oil blowing out everywhere.

Next problem is a new plug for the oil scavenging pump. I don't think it has been operating properly do to bad connection. Anyone know of a plug and socket type two wire connector that has an LED light to let you know its got current flowing. I really need to make sure that pump stays on while the bike is running. When the pump is not running the oil backs up into the turbos and out the exhaust. I looked at it looks questionable. A site glass to watch the oil moving would be great but I have not seen the clear fuel line filter lately. Not sure they are still made.

So we are off to radio shack and the auto parts store.

I'm also having trouble getting it to idle so it might also be time to start playing with starting point of the fuel map.

[Bob Buehler]

So Frankenstein has stopped hemorrhaging oil everywhere now that the crankcase is breathing (thank god). I got up this morning thinking a total motor rebuild was in my future.

I replaced the oil scavenging pump connector and put in a light so I can make sure it is on. That probably was not necessary but what the hell. I also found a clear glass in line filter that I might put in the line to be able to watch the oil flow from the pump back to the crankcase.

I managed to get it to fire up less difficulty by increasing the entire fuel map by 5%. That is referred to as trim. Seems strange to me since it starts at 0 and goes up so why trim. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the manual was written by someone on the other side of the world and the opposite hemisphere. Maybe trim means to add on down there.

I also think I figured out that "Load" is actually throttle position. So basically you have two variables in the fuel map, rpm and throttle position which makes sense. Then you have any number of modifies such as engine temp, excel orator enrichment, turbo boost or intake pressure. I really need to find a good book on this since so far the manual has not been a big help. It often says, if you don' t know what you are doing, "don't mess with this" LOL.

It also has an ignition map. I have not looked at that much yet. Fortunately all this was done by the builder. Unfortunately it is not working as well as it did on his bike, on the other side of the world, 10 years ago.

I still think I have oil pooling in the turbo since the oil out let sits at about the same level as the pump. Maybe if I could get the front end of the bike up an inch or two that would help but once its running down the road it may not be a big issue. For the time being I think I will just find a way to tilt the bike back on the stand a little. Running down the road, did I just say that. LOL

Tomorrow I think we can work on starting and idling. This should be interesting since I think I have already moved every adjustment around like the ignition advancement which has been moved from 12 degrees to as low as maybe 4. It is hard to tell if that helps or hearts. There is an start fuel pulse that I have moved from 2.3 milsec to as high as 12 or 13 which also hard to determine a sweet spot. And then you have an "initial fuel pulse add on and a decay rate. None of that seemed to make a substantial improvement to the consistence of the starting. It would eventually fire for about 3 seconds and then die. That is what got me thinking the "0 load" fuel map point was way to low. I believe you have to change that on the computer and then down load the map to the bike.

So that is todays, "dear bike diary" entry for the day. Over all a very good day since removing that cork plug. LOL

[Bob Buehler]

What a difference a 1/2 of milliseconds makes. The initial injection point (0 load or closed throttle/idle) was set at 1.0 milliseconds from the builder. How he got away with that I don't know. I punched in successively higher numbers until I got to 1.4 and then it started and remained running at a nice low rpm. I tried to lower the rpms with the mechanical idle adjustment nob but it stalled below 1100. Punched in 1.5 and that appears to work very nicely for now.

There is a lot less oil moving at that that rpm also. Maybe the scavenging pump was managing the flow better since the exhaust looked very clean. I still have a couple of oil drips around the back of the motor which make no sense since the oil level should be below the seem in the cases. I am hopping that just goes away.

So now it looks like its time to get this thing ready to go down the road.

[Bob Buehler]

Well that only took 20 years. I finally pulled it all together, got it started and ran it down the road a bit and everything worked beautifully. It builds boost quickly enough that you really don't feel any lag. I did not want to really open it up but I did see boost build to 5-10 lbs. I guess the waste gate is set a bit higher. I had aviation gas in the tank that was 100 octane.

I checked a plug after my short ride and it definitely is on the lean side so it's time to get the wideband O2 and boost gauge. The product was not available when I started this project. It will display and data log air fuel ratio and boost pressure. I don't now if this will help with my hard starting issue but it should make running and tuning a whole lot easier.

[NobleHops]

That is VERY COOL Bob. Post a photo of the assembled beast for our enjoyment, willya?

Congratulations and great job.

Some BMW guys have been doing some fueling work using the Innovate Motorsports LC-1 wideband sensors - maybe a candidate for you!

N.

[Gearheadgregg]

Sweet Bike , friend of mine installed a TBI Fuel injection on his Supercharged GL 1500 Honda Valkyrie , he had the same issues with his cold start programing , without a Dyno or friend with a Dyno close by it is hard to do seat of the pants tuning lol...He had his Laptop on his gas tank while going down the hwy trying to hang on to it lol,..my hats off to you guys that do custom FI , nothing better than the feeling of Boost on a 6 cylinder , I run 10 lbs of Boost on the the road for the last 30.000 miles on a supercharged bike ,,Like to see what lbs this CBX will put out, should be impressive, beautiful bike !

[Bob Buehler]

Here are some photos of the bike ready to go down the road. I have some bar end mirrors but they would not mount properly. Got to love cheap parts off Amazon.

So when I can get it to start it runs very nice and boosts with no lag that I can feel. I have come to the conclusion that the hard starting is a weak ignition system. The system is tied into the ECU obviously and some igniter unit with some use of the existing igniters. I have looked at it and come to the conclusion that I do not know the system or the new systems well enough to install one. I did find a shop in central Pa that said they could definitely help with what ever I needed done. This is a big relief. So it looks like its time for an updated ignition system which makes sense. I may try cleaning up all my contacts on the existing system before throwing in the towel. Sure wish now that I had not put that four gallons of fuel in the tank last night. LOL.

So here is the latest bunch of photos for anyone interested.
album]6295[/album]

[Bob Buehler]

[Bob Buehler]